Willie Snead sounding off on Twitter

[QtR Nevermore]

Using volume as “thee” barometer for quality is faulty logic.

That’s where I am. And I thought more football fans realized that.

I don't think anyone is doing that.

People are arguing that increase passing volume should be part of the picture in improving the offense against those who say it should be all about improving passing efficiency only.

[Twitch11]

Greg Roman's scheme is just fine. It went all the way to the Super Bowl in San Francisco. Some people are attempting to the make a correlation with more passing to being better in the playoffs. There is no correlation to the passing offenses of KC and TB to the Ravens. the personnel is vastly different and the coaching staffs are vastly different. We are not going to all of the sudden have Andy Reid, Travis Kelce or Tyreek Hill walk through the door. We are also not going to have Bruce Arians, Chris Godwin or Evans walk through the door. Mahomes and Brady are far better passers than anything Lamar has shown. Ravens need to fix the Oline and Lamar needs some serious development as a passer before they start dramatically increasing the pass volume. Harbs gets paid to win games not to increase passing stats. Passing stats are great for fantasy football and fans have fallen in love with them.

[edromeo]

My comment until recently pertains to the last 3 drafts....

1st round TE in Hurst is gone. so that resource is gone. That player/pick completely disappears because they gave him up for Dobbins.

I agree Hurst is gone now but at the time he was a 1st round pick spent on TE and even trading him still resulted in a weapon in JK Dobbins.

Remember this is what I disagree with:

...
This front office should continue to find those solid undrafted or late round contributors on defense and finally throw some resources at WR, and now TE to give Lamar some weapons.

OL is obviously a problem so most likely the WR position will again be pushed to the back burner

We can agree to disagree. But, i consider drafting 1st round WR, 1st round TE, 3rd round TE, 3rd round WRx2, 2nd round RB is throwing resources at WR, TE and giving weapons to Lamar.

If you don't like the guys they drafted that a different story.

[edromeo]

...
For me there isn't balance offensively due to a lack of talent for passing offense (pass-blocking, QB, receivers). Greg's scheme works even with average OL and imagine if they get actual high ceiling talent playing on form on the OL and Lamar increasing his understanding of the scheme with better chemistry with his receiving corps...

I'm imagining and it doesn't look much different from this year. They'll still be the number one running offense but Lamar will have a bit more time to throw to receivers he doesn't trust who are all running to the same spot anyway. I don't think a better O line makes much difference on it's own. They need to add receivers who can take advantage of the extra time we hope Lamar will be given.

I think you underestimate the effect the decline in OL has on the QB.

I also think you underestimate decline in QB play has on the WRs/TEs (passing game).

The WRs have experienced the least amount of change on offense from 2019 to 2020.
A WR corps of: Hollywood, Snead, Roberts, Boykin were part of the 2019 offense/passing game.
In 2019 the passing game was tops in the NFL.
Led league in passing TDs.
Tops in DVOA.
12th in YPA.
4th in 1st down%.
League MVP QB.

What changed on the OL: Loss of Yanda caused a hole at RG, loss of Stanley which forced Brown to LT which caused a hole at RT, inability of Skura to bounce back caused issues at C

What changed at TE: Loss of Hurst coupled with injury to Boyle, went from 3 top 30 TE (2 top 10) ---> 1 top 10 TE in Andrews and FB/DT filling in at TE and bunch of street TEs

Lamar- experienced a regression in his ability as rhythm drop back passer, his fundamentals and footwork were all over the place and he was missing reads, miss throws, and was more inaccurate

WRs-lost Seth Roberts and gained Duvernay and Proche

The WRs that were a part of the 2019 passing game are intact unless you consider Seth Roberts to be the straw that stirred the drink.

When you look at 2019 and 2020 adding a top tier FA WR or "true #1 WR" doesn't seem like a solution to any of the issues.
Adding a top tier FA WR or "true #1 WR" seems like addressing a perceived schematic problem that won't change anyway because Greg Roman is still the OC.

Fix the OL.
Boyle stays healthy/add 3rd TE.
Lamar bounces back to the passer he was in 2019.

[jonboy79]

I think you underestimate the effect the decline in OL has on the QB.

I also think you underestimate decline in QB play has on the WRs/TEs (passing game).

The WRs have experienced the least amount of change on offense from 2019 to 2020.
A WR corps of: Hollywood, Snead, Roberts, Boykin were part of the 2019 offense/passing game.
In 2019 the passing game was tops in the NFL.
Led league in passing TDs.
Tops in DVOA.
12th in YPA.
4th in 1st down%.
League MVP QB.

What changed on the OL: Loss of Yanda caused a hole at RG, loss of Stanley which forced Brown to LT which caused a hole at RT, inability of Skura to bounce back caused issues at C

What changed at TE: Loss of Hurst coupled with injury to Boyle, went from 3 top 30 TE (2 top 10) ---> 1 top 10 TE in Andrews and FB/DT filling in at TE and bunch of street TEs

Lamar- experienced a regression in his ability as rhythm drop back passer, his fundamentals and footwork were all over the place and he was missing reads, miss throws, and was more inaccurate

WRs-lost Seth Roberts and gained Duvernay and Proche

The WRs that were a part of the 2019 passing game are intact unless you consider Seth Roberts to be the straw that stirred the drink.

When you look at 2019 and 2020 adding a top tier FA WR or "true #1 WR" doesn't seem like a solution to any of the issues.
Adding a top tier FA WR or "true #1 WR" seems like addressing a perceived schematic problem that won't change anyway because Greg Roman is still the OC.

Fix the OL.
Boyle stays healthy/add 3rd TE.
Lamar bounces back to the passer he was in 2019.

Fantastic post.


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[Ravenswintitle]

Fantastic post.


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agreed, and will add the whole covid disruption, zoom meetings, rescheduling games, added to the chaos. And they still won a playoff game

[QtR Nevermore]

We can agree to disagree. But, i consider drafting 1st round WR, 1st round TE, 3rd round TE, 3rd round WRx2, 2nd round RB is throwing resources at WR, TE and giving weapons to Lamar.

If you don't like the guys they drafted that a different story.

Is double counting Hurst and Dobbins valid?

Those draft picks were the least they could do. When they drafted Hurst and Andrews, TE was a glaring need with only Boyle on the roster. It was the same at WR when they added Brown and Boykin. Last year the WR room still needed bodies, and they picked 2 who could double as returners. (Don't want to spend picks on the offense without getting some special teams help too.)

Excluding Hollywood at 27, those pass catchers were drafted at 86, 92, 93 and 201. Outside of Ravens world, where resources spent on the offense are a frivolous waste, that isn't a massive investment.

Looking at the AFC North, last year the Bengals had WRs and TEs that were drafted at 4, 9, 33, 52, 55: the Browns had 12, 29, 63, 72, 81 and the Steelers had 10, 49, 55, 60, 62, 66. Almost every one was taken before the Ravens preferred hunting ground of the late third round.

[jonboy79]

Is double counting Hurst and Dobbins valid?

Those draft picks were the least they could do. When they drafted Hurst and Andrews, TE was a glaring need with only Boyle on the roster. It was the same at WR when they added Brown and Boykin. Last year the WR room still needed bodies, and they picked 2 who could double as returners. (Don't want to spend picks on the offense without getting some special teams help too.)

Excluding Hollywood at 27, those pass catchers were drafted at 86, 92, 93 and 201. Outside of Ravens world, where resources spent on the offense are a frivolous waste, that isn't a massive investment.

Looking at the AFC North, last year the Bengals had WRs and TEs that were drafted at 4, 9, 33, 52, 55: the Browns had 12, 29, 63, 72, 81 and the Steelers had 10, 49, 55, 60, 62, 66. Almost every one was taken before the Ravens preferred hunting ground of the late third round.

Notice those teams also consistently draft earlier in the round, aka win less games.


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[seraph]

Because some people use that word and mean the opposite...

Balance is equal on both sides of the equation, that’s a 50/50 run/pass ratio and I don’t believe there is another definition that fits. It’s a really simple term.


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I would never define balance to refer to play-call types. And I'm sure other people would take the definition of balance in football to offensive capability not how many different types of plays you call. Actual good offensive playcallers benefit from good execution and understanding that they should keep calling the play when it works over-and-over until the defense stops it.

[InigoMontoya]

Is double counting Hurst and Dobbins valid?

Those draft picks were the least they could do. When they drafted Hurst and Andrews, TE was a glaring need with only Boyle on the roster. It was the same at WR when they added Brown and Boykin. Last year the WR room still needed bodies, and they picked 2 who could double as returners. (Don't want to spend picks on the offense without getting some special teams help too.)

Excluding Hollywood at 27, those pass catchers were drafted at 86, 92, 93 and 201. Outside of Ravens world, where resources spent on the offense are a frivolous waste, that isn't a massive investment.

Looking at the AFC North, last year the Bengals had WRs and TEs that were drafted at 4, 9, 33, 52, 55: the Browns had 12, 29, 63, 72, 81 and the Steelers had 10, 49, 55, 60, 62, 66. Almost every one was taken before the Ravens preferred hunting ground of the late third round.

He's only talking about the Ravens draft picks since 2018. Whereas the picks you've mentioned for the other AFC North teams are mostly before that time. Apples to oranges.

Since 2018, the Ravens have made four 1st round picks. 3 of those 4 have been (QB, TE, WR). Their lone second round pick was on a RB. So, 4 out of 5 first or second round picks since 2018 were at offensive skill positions.

[Ortizer]

That playoff win was due to the defense a lot more than the running game.



So you're still going to strawman me with 4000 passing yards when I talked about Tennessee and Cleveland, the 23rd and 24th passing attacks?



Why? Wouldn't a bettter passing game open things up for a running game which will always be dominant for as long as Lamar's at QB?

The crazy thing is that Tennessee has what, 2-3% more pass plays vs runs than us? It's not that different. They were way better at it when they did it though.

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