Pass rush solutions.

**The Wizard of OZ** · 02-16-2021, 04:36 PM

Originally Posted by GOTA

I certainly wouldn't be against draft an edge rusher in round 1. I'm partial to 2 Miami guys Greg Rousseau and Jaelen Phillips. Phillips actually replace Rousseau who opted out of the season. Phillips is not as polished as Rousseau but he's also more likely to be someone who the Ravens could get in round 1. If the opportunity is there an edge rusher is someone who could really contribute as a rookie and be part of the solution

To the bolded, ABSOLUTELY NOT!! Phillips I'd take in the top 15, might be a little concerned about the concussions, but I'd take Phillips well before Rousseau. I'm not a fan of the latter at all. STIFF, SLOW, not twitchy and just not explosive overall. He does use length well, and that's about it. I don't see him setting the edge well in the run game. I don't see him as a guy with a pass rush plan. I don't want him anywhere near the Ravens. Phillips on the other hand, if he falls to us at 27 run to turn the card in. Rousseau from my perspective is a huge project. We don't need to be taking a project at 27. His sack production is very deceptive when you look at his games and where he got those sacks. Lots of mocks have him going high, but I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't go in the 1st round unless one of the teams that draft bad, like the Raiders, and/or NE take him. I just don't see it. Ughhhhh.

Watch him vs FSU

2nd play, runs too far up the field, needs to squeeze - something that Kwity Paye excels at. Phillips is inconsistent but at times he does this very well. He just needs more consistency. Rousseau on the other hand gets caught running up the field a hell of a lot in the run game. That's instinctual awareness. If they leave you unblocked on the snap then that means something is either coming back at you or it is just going away from you altogether.

33 secs in. Did you just get stonewalled by a FB?
Next play - I don't like the way he throws his outside shoulder in at the tackle. For a guy with those arms why is he not doing things like Phillips and Ojulari who when they see that tackle raise his hands, they grab that one hand and then swipe the other one with their other arm. This is what I mean when I post about having a pass rush plan. Rousseau from all I have watched does not have one.

Next two plays, same thing. He just does not cause any havoc off the edge.

1:04 The interesting thing though is when Miami played Rousseau on the interior he did ok. He's a weird study because with his frame you would think he'd get eaten alive on the interior, but that's where he did his best work in 2019.

I'll post his snaps vs UVA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IobVrg9pOVg

You will see some of the same stuff here. He just does not have that natural bend that many great edge rushers have. His first step is not explosive at all. He's slow out of the gate. He does not use his hands well. His greatest asset is length but he seems to have used that best when Miami lined him up on the interior. I do not want us taking this guy at all. He's a huge project IMO. Now if someone can mold the clay and get him to reach his potential he'll probably be an excellent edge player. I don't want us to gamble with him. Let someone else take that on.

Now compare him to Jaelen Phillips https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WilIPXkEvWM vs Va Tech
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMqHtu-6BDA vs NC State
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0dmTbOM4OY vs Clemson

Very first snap. Quick first step. Violent usage of hands to deal with and get around/through the blocker. Complete opposite of Rousseau.

Look at him in the run game on the 2nd snap. Now to be fair, against UNC he got undisciplined a bit which led to some big runs so the consistency needs to be taken up a notch. But again, look at his use of hands, combined with length to deal with the blocker. Rousseau does not do this well at all.

Even though he did not make a play here this fourth snap is really telling. Look at his first step, diagnosis and movement. Notice he's unblocked, he squeezes immediately, then sees pass and is back to rushing the passer. There's a fluidity there.

Fifth snap at 00:48 excellent work squeezing that lane when you are not blocked instead of running up the field. Again, against UNC he got undisciplined with this a little bit, but you can see he can diagnosis pretty quickly and know what to do immediately

1:12 I don't like his plan of attack on inside stunts here. I need to rewatch some of his games for a larger sample size to see if this is a tendency that he falls into when rushing from the edge to the inside on stunts.

1:35 again, explosive first step, violent hands to deal with and get around the blocker.

1:45 now that's a lot better with the inside stunt than at 1:12.

2:21 Va Tech did a great job crossing him up with motion here. No linebacker support either. Yikes.

3:12 again, he squeezes that lane.
3:26 he attempts to use a spin move. Doesn't make a play here but the important thing is seeing what a guy has in his arsenal.
3:38 mehhh, they dropped him into coverage. At this point I don't like him dropping into coverage although he has made some plays there.

4:10 - I like his handling of the blocker here. Not sure who was the force player there but he ran up the field too much and the QB was able to cut underneath. Phillips did his job here.

4:57 Mehhh, seems to get lost in the traffic.
5:06 sets the edge and forces the cut underneath. LB needs to fill.
5:45 OK, I don't like this. This is about the 3rd time he's gotten lost in the shuffle on the stunt to the inside. He has one good snap doing that thus far.

5:56 Good job getting up field to force the run wide, 2nd level defenders need to make the tackle.
6:55 To me this is what you are starting with Jaelen Phillips as an edge rusher and it's really good. I could go on.

What I don't like right now with Phillips is him stunting to the inside and I need to rewatch Clemson, FSU, UNC, Louisvill to see coverage drop. But as it stands right now, as an edge havoc player I have Phillips as 1c. Ojulari as 1a. Paye as 1b. Paye to me is the best run defender of the 3 but he doesn't quite have the pass rush arsenal that Ojulari and Phillips have. He doesn't rush with a plan yet, he just wills his way through talent per se. Also, the other concern I have with Phillips are some concussion history.

Back to Rousseau, to me all he has in his arsenal is length. His first step is bad for an NFL Edge rusher. He lacks bend and explosion, doesn't have violent hands to deal with blockers and I have major concerns about him excelling on the interior and being below average on the edge. Part of it is probably because on the interior the athleticism he has shines, but it's just not fit to play from the edge and if I'm drafting a guy to play edge, because of several of these things he wouldn't even be in the conversation. I think he should have played this year to mitigate some of these concerns. But I understand his decision due to Covid.

So to summarize some things. When I'm looking at Edge I'm looking for
1. Guys with an explosive first step
2. Guys that have something in their arsenal to rush the passer.
3. Guys that have some IQ and awareness of what's happening (see plays when they are not blocked and watch how they react)
4. Violent usage of hands
5. Do they look like they play the Ravens way?

**jhoff66** · 02-16-2021, 06:37 PM

Originally Posted by The Wizard of OZ

To the bolded, ABSOLUTELY NOT!! Phillips I'd take in the top 15, might be a little concerned about the concussions, but I'd take Phillips well before Rousseau. I'm not a fan of the latter at all. STIFF, SLOW, not twitchy and just not explosive overall. He does use length well, and that's about it. I don't see him setting the edge well in the run game. I don't see him as a guy with a pass rush plan. I don't want him anywhere near the Ravens. Phillips on the other hand, if he falls to us at 27 run to turn the card in. Rousseau from my perspective is a huge project. We don't need to be taking a project at 27. His sack production is very deceptive when you look at his games and where he got those sacks. Lots of mocks have him going high, but I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't go in the 1st round unless one of the teams that draft bad, like the Raiders, and/or NE take him. I just don't see it. Ughhhhh.

Watch him vs FSU

2nd play, runs too far up the field, needs to squeeze - something that Kwity Paye excels at. Phillips is inconsistent but at times he does this very well. He just needs more consistency. Rousseau on the other hand gets caught running up the field a hell of a lot in the run game. That's instinctual awareness. If they leave you unblocked on the snap then that means something is either coming back at you or it is just going away from you altogether.

33 secs in. Did you just get stonewalled by a FB?
Next play - I don't like the way he throws his outside shoulder in at the tackle. For a guy with those arms why is he not doing things like Phillips and Ojulari who when they see that tackle raise his hands, they grab that one hand and then swipe the other one with their other arm. This is what I mean when I post about having a pass rush plan. Rousseau from all I have watched does not have one.

Next two plays, same thing. He just does not cause any havoc off the edge.

1:04 The interesting thing though is when Miami played Rousseau on the interior he did ok. He's a weird study because with his frame you would think he'd get eaten alive on the interior, but that's where he did his best work in 2019.

I'll post his snaps vs UVA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IobVrg9pOVg

You will see some of the same stuff here. He just does not have that natural bend that many great edge rushers have. His first step is not explosive at all. He's slow out of the gate. He does not use his hands well. His greatest asset is length but he seems to have used that best when Miami lined him up on the interior. I do not want us taking this guy at all. He's a huge project IMO. Now if someone can mold the clay and get him to reach his potential he'll probably be an excellent edge player. I don't want us to gamble with him. Let someone else take that on.

Now compare him to Jaelen Phillips https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WilIPXkEvWM vs Va Tech
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMqHtu-6BDA vs NC State
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0dmTbOM4OY vs Clemson

Very first snap. Quick first step. Violent usage of hands to deal with and get around/through the blocker. Complete opposite of Rousseau.

Look at him in the run game on the 2nd snap. Now to be fair, against UNC he got undisciplined a bit which led to some big runs so the consistency needs to be taken up a notch. But again, look at his use of hands, combined with length to deal with the blocker. Rousseau does not do this well at all.

Even though he did not make a play here this fourth snap is really telling. Look at his first step, diagnosis and movement. Notice he's unblocked, he squeezes immediately, then sees pass and is back to rushing the passer. There's a fluidity there.

Fifth snap at 00:48 excellent work squeezing that lane when you are not blocked instead of running up the field. Again, against UNC he got undisciplined with this a little bit, but you can see he can diagnosis pretty quickly and know what to do immediately

1:12 I don't like his plan of attack on inside stunts here. I need to rewatch some of his games for a larger sample size to see if this is a tendency that he falls into when rushing from the edge to the inside on stunts.

1:35 again, explosive first step, violent hands to deal with and get around the blocker.

1:45 now that's a lot better with the inside stunt than at 1:12.

2:21 Va Tech did a great job crossing him up with motion here. No linebacker support either. Yikes.

3:12 again, he squeezes that lane.
3:26 he attempts to use a spin move. Doesn't make a play here but the important thing is seeing what a guy has in his arsenal.
3:38 mehhh, they dropped him into coverage. At this point I don't like him dropping into coverage although he has made some plays there.

4:10 - I like his handling of the blocker here. Not sure who was the force player there but he ran up the field too much and the QB was able to cut underneath. Phillips did his job here.

4:57 Mehhh, seems to get lost in the traffic.
5:06 sets the edge and forces the cut underneath. LB needs to fill.
5:45 OK, I don't like this. This is about the 3rd time he's gotten lost in the shuffle on the stunt to the inside. He has one good snap doing that thus far.

5:56 Good job getting up field to force the run wide, 2nd level defenders need to make the tackle.
6:55 To me this is what you are starting with Jaelen Phillips as an edge rusher and it's really good. I could go on.

What I don't like right now with Phillips is him stunting to the inside and I need to rewatch Clemson, FSU, UNC, Louisvill to see coverage drop. But as it stands right now, as an edge havoc player I have Phillips as 1c. Ojulari as 1a. Paye as 1b. Paye to me is the best run defender of the 3 but he doesn't quite have the pass rush arsenal that Ojulari and Phillips have. He doesn't rush with a plan yet, he just wills his way through talent per se. Also, the other concern I have with Phillips are some concussion history.

Back to Rousseau, to me all he has in his arsenal is length. His first step is bad for an NFL Edge rusher. He lacks bend and explosion, doesn't have violent hands to deal with blockers and I have major concerns about him excelling on the interior and being below average on the edge. Part of it is probably because on the interior the athleticism he has shines, but it's just not fit to play from the edge and if I'm drafting a guy to play edge, because of several of these things he wouldn't even be in the conversation. I think he should have played this year to mitigate some of these concerns. But I understand his decision due to Covid.

So to summarize some things. When I'm looking at Edge I'm looking for
1. Guys with an explosive first step
2. Guys that have something in their arsenal to rush the passer.
3. Guys that have some IQ and awareness of what's happening (see plays when they are not blocked and watch how they react)
4. Violent usage of hands
5. Do they look like they play the Ravens way?

Yeah guy STINKS! Those 15.5 sacks he had two years ago were all qbs taking dives....

**The Wizard of OZ** · 02-16-2021, 06:53 PM

Originally Posted by jhoff66

Yeah guy STINKS! Those 15.5 sacks he had two years ago were all qbs taking dives....

If you read the breakdown, which is kinda long, but the sack totals are very deceptive. A lot of his sack production did not come from him lining up on the edge. They came from Miami lining him up on the interior. Do the research on these players and don't just look at numbers. Find out what the numbers mean. Where they are deceptive and where they might be accurate of a guys ability. 15.5 sacks for Rousseau is very deceptive of him as an edge rusher because a lot of that came from lining up on the interior, not on the edge, where he looks absolutely unathletic, slow and mechanical, slow out of his stance.

**jhoff66** · 02-16-2021, 07:52 PM

Originally Posted by The Wizard of OZ

If you read the breakdown, which is kinda long, but the sack totals are very deceptive. A lot of his sack production did not come from him lining up on the edge. They came from Miami lining him up on the interior. Do the research on these players and don't just look at numbers. Find out what the numbers mean. Where they are deceptive and where they might be accurate of a guys ability. 15.5 sacks for Rousseau is very deceptive of him as an edge rusher because a lot of that came from lining up on the interior, not on the edge, where he looks absolutely unathletic, slow and mechanical, slow out of his stance.

Pass rush is pass rush. Who cares where it comes from? He is very Raw and new to the position. Played WR and Saftey in highschool. So he's still learning the position, but with his size and athleticism. Skys the limit. Everyone in the bottom of the first round is coming with some questions anyway....

**Mark** · 02-16-2021, 08:43 PM

Originally Posted by jhoff66

I'd rather make a long-term contract with Yannick than Judon or Dupree as well. He's only 25 and you have to remember he came in mid-year in a complicated scheme. I don't see Yannick getting crazy money and believe he has the most upside in this scheme. No way Decosta let s him go after trading for him.

I think EDC made the trade with the specific idea that if he either didn't want or couldn't afford to sign Yannick long term, he would take the comp pick in 2023. Low risk trade with high potential reward. It's also possible Yannick doesn't like his limited role in Wink's scheme and would rather have a bigger role elsewhere along with a paycheck we won't want to pay. Right player? maybe, Right price? probably not.

**John Reglarperson** · 02-16-2021, 08:57 PM

Originally Posted by jhoff66

Pass rush is pass rush. Who cares where it comes from? He is very Raw and new to the position. Played WR and Saftey in highschool. So he's still learning the position, but with his size and athleticism. Skys the limit. Everyone in the bottom of the first round is coming with some questions anyway....

Some have been whining about need WR. This WR is tall, a big red zone threat (which really is what the Ravens kinda need) and can sack. What's not to like?

**The Wizard of OZ** · 02-16-2021, 09:06 PM

Originally Posted by jhoff66

Pass rush is pass rush. Who cares where it comes from? He is very Raw and new to the position. Played WR and Saftey in highschool. So he's still learning the position, but with his size and athleticism. Skys the limit. Everyone in the bottom of the first round is coming with some questions anyway....

His athleticism is the problem. HE lacks it. No quick twitch. Lacks bend to play the edge. And it sure does matter where he got the sacks. His skinny frame more than likely is not going to allow him to have pass rush success in the NFL. He's a massive project with no pass rush plan when he gets after the QB. That's not the type of guy you take in round 1 unless you are the Raiders and Patriots who are bad draft teams. Give me a guy with an arsenal at least. He doesn't have one. NO thanks.

**The Wizard of OZ** · 02-16-2021, 09:07 PM

Originally Posted by John Reglarperson

Some have been whining about need WR. This WR is tall, a big red zone threat (which really is what the Ravens kinda need) and can sack. What's not to like?

He's most likely terrible at both.

**AmishlandRavenFan** · 02-16-2021, 09:31 PM

Originally Posted by QtR Nevermore

I don't think Bowser will be an expensive FA signing. He never gets mentioned in Top free agent lists, other fans never talk about him and the general view on him isn't very high. His actual pass rushing skills aren't great, which will be a deal breaker for a FA edge signing for a lot of teams too.

Of course some GMs will like him but they'd have to play the right system and have money available to even be a factor. I think the Ravens will be able to re-sign Bower fairly cheaply.

Agreed. I think Bowser and Ward will be back, and the only question will be for how long of a contract. This is going to be a weird year wherein a lot of established vets will want short-term contracts hoping the cap goes up significantly in 2023. That said, for guys like Bowser and Ward, they may prefer the security of a larger signing bonus/longer contract, even in a buyer’s market.

**Shas** · 02-17-2021, 11:00 AM

Originally Posted by The Wizard of OZ

I'd take Phillips well before Rousseau....When I'm looking at Edge I'm looking for
1. Guys with an explosive first step
2. Guys that have something in their arsenal to rush the passer.
3. Guys that have some IQ and awareness of what's happening (see plays when they are not blocked and watch how they react)
4. Violent usage of hands
5. Do they look like they play the Ravens way?

I like Ossai over both of them.

I'm just another fan watching clips but Ossai impresses me as both a pass rusher and edge setter who I can envision in the Ravens scheme. He also seems like he plays like an NFL defender, with some violence.

**DeltaRaven** · 02-17-2021, 11:40 AM

Rumors circulating that Broncos likely won't pick up Von Miller's 2021 option which would make him a UFA.

Bring back Bowser, buy low on Von Miller, and a 1st round draft pick would address EDGE adequately for this season.

**Shas** · 02-17-2021, 11:59 AM

Originally Posted by DeltaRaven

Rumors circulating that Broncos likely won't pick up Von Miller's 2021 option which would make him a UFA..

I continue to maintain that there are so many pass rushers on the market that the Ravens are going to treat this like a game of musical chairs.

Meaning, they are not going to target a particular player but they are going to let the market play out through April and then make a deal to bring back Judon or Ngakoue, or bring in a pass rusher, after the market for them dries up.

If they can sign Bowser, I'd expect that to happen quickly (much like when Nick Boyle was a quick signing when he hit free agency), and they they will see how the market shakes out.