Democracy exposed

[pickles]

This will probably be another circular debate, but can you point to specific moments/statements/actions where Trump was actively lying about COVID or how best to respond to it?

Because, quite frankly, if you’re going to flame him for lying and misleading or being wrong, then you better be willing to apply that flaming to many, many, many other people in the government and medical community.

Fauci, Pelosi, Biden, Cuomo, Wolfe, Newsome, the CDC, the WHO, and too many others to name were ALL observed putting out inaccurate and incorrect information at one point or another. Many of them also switched stories and claims back and forth several times.


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Yeah, but Trump lied about it AND spread false rumors!!

Can you believe it?

It doesn't at all sound like some stupid motherfucker who doesn't have a point trying to list things and repeating the same thing over and over again.

No, sireee Bob.

This is the language of a principled man who has a serious point to make.

[LittleG]

So a bunch of non-specific bullshit. Most of which doesn't even make sense.

Check.

How did I know?

I mean he lied about it AND spread false rumors?

How fucking stupid is that?
#followingthescience

Hey. I have been patient with you for months. Calm the fuck down.

I have written a list previously.... not sure how to link it. I made suggestions months ago about what needed to be done at the outset.
This is what needed to be done back in June (August at latest) once we saw how bad it was in New York:


Prioritise N95 mask production on a massive scale.
Increase manufacturing of air purifiers.
Fire Cuomo (if possible).
Mask use everywhere practical.
Test people and get people to isolate for 14 days if exposed to virus (must test negative on both day 4 & day 14).
Get contacts of people to isolate for 14 days (first level contacts). Test them on day 4 & day 14. Must test negative on day 14 to stop isolating. Also get THEIR contacts (second level contacts) to isolate until the results of the day 4 test are known. IF the first level contact test on day 4 test is negative and they also test negative, allow them to finish isolation.
Quarantine travellers for 14 days and must return a positive test to leave quarantine on day 14.
Social distancing restrictions for a 4 months. This will mean people working from home if possible, workplaces to work to Covid safety guidelines. Provide payments to businesses who can’t adapt to guidelines and need to run at a lower capacity (eg. Meatworks).
Payments from government to businesses to keep them going & deep clean their premises IF asked to close briefly due to a visit from a virus positive person. Close for 48 hours to clean both surfaces and most importantly the air.
Payments from government to individuals to keep them going IF they are asked to isolate.
Test people 3 days after they leave quarantine/isolation, as about 1% of tests are wrong.

As this is a national problem, we need a national solution. Individual states will probably need assistance.


IF the virus can’t be transmitted, it is eliminated. My suggestions would probably eliminate the virus inside 4 months. Cost estimate would be under $10T.... BUT we would be back to normal without Covid, apart from quarantining travellers. I would still rollout the vaccines but prioritise healthcare workers & quarantine workers before the elderly.

[LittleG]

Fauci, Pelosi, Biden, Cuomo, Wolfe, Newsome, the CDC, the WHO, and too many others to name were ALL observed putting out inaccurate and incorrect information at one point or another.

That is a good list. I could add many more to it.... Most countries around the world failed. But not all and why should we not be the best.... rather than amongst the worst.

The lies from Trump that I think are/were the most damaging, were the ‘it’s going to go away by .....’. ‘It’s nothing serious’ - when privately acknowledging it was. Promoting bleach, UV treatments and hydroxychlorine style treatments.

[jonboy79]

That is a good list. I could add many more to it.... Most countries around the world failed. But not all and why should we not be the best.... rather than amongst the worst.

The lies from Trump that I think are/were the most damaging, were the ‘it’s going to go away by .....’. ‘It’s nothing serious’ - when privately acknowledging it was. Promoting bleach, UV treatments and hydroxychlorine style treatments.

I like your position on Cuomo and ability to flame both sides.

But I don’t see this as a “national problem needing national solutions”
How NYC handles COVID has nothing to do with how Some random ex-mining town in Montana handles it. The smaller the geographical area that could have decided how to handle things the better. The state level, to some degree is too broad, IMO but certainly better. We are a collection of states rather than a uniform nation, and I like it that way.


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[pickles]

Hey. I have been patient with you for months. Calm the fuck down.

I have written a list previously.... not sure how to link it. I made suggestions months ago about what needed to be done at the outset.
This is what needed to be done back in June (August at latest) once we saw how bad it was in New York:


Prioritise N95 mask production on a massive scale.
Increase manufacturing of air purifiers.
Fire Cuomo (if possible).
Mask use everywhere practical.
Test people and get people to isolate for 14 days if exposed to virus (must test negative on both day 4 & day 14).
Get contacts of people to isolate for 14 days (first level contacts). Test them on day 4 & day 14. Must test negative on day 14 to stop isolating. Also get THEIR contacts (second level contacts) to isolate until the results of the day 4 test are known. IF the first level contact test on day 4 test is negative and they also test negative, allow them to finish isolation.
Quarantine travellers for 14 days and must return a positive test to leave quarantine on day 14.
Social distancing restrictions for a 4 months. This will mean people working from home if possible, workplaces to work to Covid safety guidelines. Provide payments to businesses who can’t adapt to guidelines and need to run at a lower capacity (eg. Meatworks).
Payments from government to businesses to keep them going & deep clean their premises IF asked to close briefly due to a visit from a virus positive person. Close for 48 hours to clean both surfaces and most importantly the air.
Payments from government to individuals to keep them going IF they are asked to isolate.
Test people 3 days after they leave quarantine/isolation, as about 1% of tests are wrong.

As this is a national problem, we need a national solution. Individual states will probably need assistance.


IF the virus can’t be transmitted, it is eliminated. My suggestions would probably eliminate the virus inside 4 months. Cost estimate would be under $10T.... BUT we would be back to normal without Covid, apart from quarantining travellers. I would still rollout the vaccines but prioritise healthcare workers & quarantine workers before the elderly.

I appreciate your patience. I confess though: I'm fresh the fuck out.

Your bullshit list is a great example why.

It can be divided into two categories:

1) Things the Trump administration did. And

2) Things that are either downright unconstitutional, or really fucking stupid. (Do you think the President can "fire" a Governor? You demonstrate over and over again that you don't have the slightest clue about the topics you are opining about, but you seem to think you have some market on "science" or "facts" and its downright ludicrous.)

And it really demonstrates the problem: The media. You are wildly misinformed because you believe the shit you read and see on TV in the MSM. It's hard to blame you for that. It's equally hard to conjure up much sympathy for you though, of course.

As has been noted by several people on this board from all sides of the spectrum: We live in a country where people basically exist in two different realities. It's not going to end well, boys.

[LittleG]

I like your position on Cuomo and ability to flame both sides.

But I don’t see this as a “national problem needing national solutions”
How NYC handles COVID has nothing to do with how Some random ex-mining town in Montana handles it. The smaller the geographical area that could have decided how to handle things the better. The state level, to some degree is too broad, IMO but certainly better. We are a collection of states rather than a uniform nation, and I like it that way.


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I value competence. It’s truly the best measure.... Pelosi isn’t competent either, McConnell is probably worse but I am not sure, 6 is one and half dozen the other.

I agree about regional levels being better at handling it. The problem is the lack of money to get it done. I see that as a federal issue.

Vermont has done very well in suppressing Covid. West Virginia has done very well in its vaccine roll out.

Moral is that not ALL politicians are incompetent all the time. Some politicians can be competent some of the time, I just hope it’s with the big things.

[LittleG]

I appreciate your patience. I confess though: I'm fresh the fuck out.

Your bullshit list is a great example why.

It can be divided into two categories:

1) Things the Trump administration did. And

2) Things that are either downright unconstitutional, or really fucking stupid. (Do you think the President can "fire" a Governor? You demonstrate over and over again that you don't have the slightest clue about the topics you are opining about, but you seem to think you have some market on "science" or "facts" and its downright ludicrous.)

And it really demonstrates the problem: The media. You are wildly misinformed because you believe the shit you read and see on TV in the MSM. It's hard to blame you for that. It's equally hard to conjure up much sympathy for you though, of course.

As has been noted by several people on this board from all sides of the spectrum: We live in a country where people basically exist in two different realities. It's not going to end well, boys.

IF a single line is ALL you concentrate on, then yes, the US needs to split. I would suggest into 4 parts. Texas, West Coast, North East Coast & Central (which includes the South).

[pickles]

IF a single line is ALL you concentrate on, then yes, the US needs to split. I would suggest into 4 parts. Texas, West Coast, North East Coast & Central (which includes the South).

It's not a single line man. It's the totality of the post. However, that single line shows that you either have no idea what you're talking about (likely) or you hold Donald Trump to some standard which is impossible to fulfill solely for the purpose of flagellating him politically (true of your sources).

There's been plenty of words wasted here about Covid as it is. I shouldn't have even opened the can of worms.

[jonboy79]

I value competence. It’s truly the best measure.... Pelosi isn’t competent either, McConnell is probably worse but I am not sure, 6 is one and half dozen the other.

I agree about regional levels being better at handling it. The problem is the lack of money to get it done. I see that as a federal issue.

Vermont has done very well in suppressing Covid. West Virginia has done very well in its vaccine roll out.

Moral is that not ALL politicians are incompetent all the time. Some politicians can be competent some of the time, I just hope it’s with the big things.

McConnell might not be worse, but it’s a race of two turds to the bottom after the flusher was pushed...

Vermont has done well in quite a draconian manner. During the first lockdown, even stores like Target and Walmart allowed to be open were forced to rope off on-essential items. That’s ridiculous.

Now, their ski industry is a huge portion of their economy and they have made it nearly impossible for out of staters to visit, and it is Destroying many, many businesses so many Ancillary businesses destroyed, not to mention the actual industry itself.

What it takes to really suppress numbers... is going too far in my mind. The cure is worse than the disease. The irreversible destruction of the economy and mental state of humans has been immense for a disease that greatly harms well under a percent of those infected.


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[jonboy79]

IF a single line is ALL you concentrate on, then yes, the US needs to split. I would suggest into 4 parts. Texas, West Coast, North East Coast & Central (which includes the South).

I think Texas and Central can stay together.

Cali, WA and OR

New England plus NYC/NJ... perhaps following the coast as far as DC/NOvA. PA east of KOP should go central in this instance however. Upstate NY as well.

I think it is inevitable at this point and the only real solution.

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[pickles]

I think Texas and Central can stay together.

Cali, WA and OR

New England plus NYC/NJ... perhaps following the coast as far as DC/NOvA. PA east of KOP should go central in this instance however. Upstate NY as well.

I think it is inevitable at this point and the only real solution.

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It's an interesting thought experiment.

But it doesn't really shed any light on the issue.

If something like that does take place it won't be decided over a negotiating table.

[LittleG]

I think Texas and Central can stay together.

Cali, WA and OR

New England plus NYC/NJ... perhaps following the coast as far as DC/NOvA. PA east of KOP should go central in this instance however. Upstate NY as well.

I think it is inevitable at this point and the only real solution.

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Illinois is more a North East State.... same with large parts of Michigan and Pennsylvania. I would include Virginia as part of DC area, in the North East.

Lone Star would take the opportunity.... to leave, no doubt in my mind there.