Democracy exposed

**LittleG** · 02-11-2021, 08:11 PM

Trump showed us how easily it would have been for democratic processes to be bypassed. Trump surrogates weren’t competent enough to succeed, looking clearly at you: Giuliani, Wood & Powell.

Without change, the next time systems and processes are challenged, we could end up in a dictatorship/communist/military state. What needs to happen now to prevent the loss of democracy?

**pickles** · 02-11-2021, 08:15 PM

Protesting voter fraud IS democracy.

Your objections to it show that YOU are the fascist dictator.

**BustOfPallas** · 02-11-2021, 08:23 PM

Bull.

Trump if anything exposed how beholden we are to unelected beurocrats/government lifers.

He also showed how hard it is, by design, to for one person and party to impose their will on the country.

There are checks and balances built into our system.

It all hinges though on the universally held belief that our elections are fair , uncomprimised and incorruptible. When that goes so goes our country...

You can't pretend to care about systems and processes and not be disturbed by the serious and real concerns/questions raised about the integrity of our last election.

Thats the most important place, the only place, to start any serious query into the safety and integrity of our system of government and its "systems and processes".

**NCRAVEN** · 02-11-2021, 09:17 PM

Gaslighting much?

**LittleG** · 02-11-2021, 09:34 PM

Originally Posted by BustOfPallas

Bull.

Trump if anything exposed how beholden we are to unelected beurocrats/government lifers.

He also showed how hard it is, by design, to for one person and party to impose their will on the country.

There are checks and balances built into our system.

It all hinges though on the universally held belief that our elections are fair , uncomprimised and incorruptible. When that goes so goes our country...

You can't pretend to care about systems and processes and not be disturbed by the serious and real concerns/questions raised about the integrity of our last election.

Thats the most important place, the only place, to start any serious query into the safety and integrity of our system of government and its "systems and processes".

I am concerned about the systems and processes of the last election. There are different standards used in different states.... but this is following the constitution.

I don’t object to challenging results via the courts. As far as I am concerned that is the process.

The systems I am objecting to are the non-elected officials that certify the results at county/state level. A group of 4 partisan officials 2/2 isn’t a great system.

**FadeToBlack** · 02-14-2021, 11:46 AM

Originally Posted by LittleG

Trump showed us how easily it would have been for democratic processes to be bypassed. Trump surrogates weren’t competent enough to succeed, looking clearly at you: Giuliani, Wood & Powell.

Without change, the next time systems and processes are challenged, we could end up in a dictatorship/communist/military state. What needs to happen now to prevent the loss of democracy?

We already lost democracy. The last election was a fraud. The left hates to hear this because in their world, they're on the side of the majority and can't fathom how someone like Trump could be as popular as he is. But he is. He isn't popular because of his imperfections (limited vocabulary, boorishness, rudeness, arrogance, dumb tweets, we get it, he's the least-statesman-like president of all-time). People liked Trump because he was candid, he shot from the hip, he didn't speak to us like a typical politician, he said things no president had the balls to say yet many quietly agreed with, etc. There's a reason the GOP has become his party, he's their only chance.

We were showing signs of becoming a security state dictatorship back when the Five Eyes groups sent spies at George Papadopoulos and tried to ensnare him into a Russian collusion scandal which used spooks posing as (or being accused of being) Russian agents (Mifsud, Kilimnik who turned out to be a US State Dept. asset, Carter Page who turned out to be on the CIA payroll). That spying scandal made Watergate look like child's play, easily the most corrupt episode in American politics (before the 2020 election took it to another level entirely).

Democracy is finished if no other reason that all mainstream sources of news lie incessantly and gaslight millions of people, who later show up to the polls and vote. When your sources of information are hijacked from cradle to the grave, it takes a vigilant person to break from the hivemind and have any chance at seeing what's really happening to make an informed vote.

**FadeToBlack** · 02-14-2021, 11:54 AM

To follow-up on the above post, the reason the spying scandal was an attack on democracy is because the purpose of it was to remove Trump and members of his cabinet after an election. In other words, to annul his victory and his agenda from being implemented. Same with the 1st impeachment and the Covid-mail ballot scheme. I didn't make that clear.

**LittleG** · 02-14-2021, 06:58 PM

Originally Posted by FadeToBlack

To follow-up on the above post, the reason the spying scandal was an attack on democracy is because the purpose of it was to remove Trump and members of his cabinet after an election. In other words, to annul his victory and his agenda from being implemented. Same with the 1st impeachment and the Covid-mail ballot scheme. I didn't make that clear.

Members of Trumps team did work with alleged Russian Spies. This isn’t disputed. Those people needed to be removed from Office. Trump wasn’t impeached for that, as it wasn’t him liaising the Spies.... but some of his staff. They staff weren’t elected. No one should get a pass for illegal activity just because they won or lost an election.
IF voter fraud is proven in a court of law, I want those responsible to be jailed for a very long time.

Covid could have been handled much better and there would have been no need for massive amounts of mail in ballots. The mishandling of Covid was my single biggest issue with Trump. Cuomo handled it worst of all democratically elected governments but Trump was second worst.

**pickles** · 02-14-2021, 06:59 PM

Originally Posted by LittleG

Members of Trumps team did work with alleged Russian Spies. This isn’t disputed. Those people needed to be removed from Office. Trump wasn’t impeached for that, as it wasn’t him liaising the Spies.... but some of his staff. They staff weren’t elected. No one should get a pass for illegal activity just because they won or lost an election.
IF voter fraud is proven in a court of law, I want those responsible to be jailed for a very long time.

Covid could have been handled much better and there would have been no need for massive amounts of mail in ballots. The mishandling of Covid was my single biggest issue with Trump. Cuomo handled it worst of all democratically elected governments but Trump was second worst.

What should Trump have done in regards to Covid?

**LittleG** · 02-14-2021, 07:45 PM

Originally Posted by pickles

What should Trump have done in regards to Covid?

Not lie about it. Not spread false rumours. Not promote his business contacts false treatments. Just told it like it was.

That’s a start.

**pickles** · 02-14-2021, 07:48 PM

Originally Posted by LittleG

Not lie about it. Not spread false rumours. Not promote his business contacts false treatments. Just told it like it was.

That’s a start.

So a bunch of non-specific bullshit. Most of which doesn't even make sense.

Check.

How did I know?

I mean he lied about it AND spread false rumors?

How fucking stupid is that?
#followingthescience

**wickedsolo** · 02-14-2021, 08:00 PM

Originally Posted by LittleG

Not lie about it. Not spread false rumours. Not promote his business contacts false treatments. Just told it like it was.

That’s a start.

This will probably be another circular debate, but can you point to specific moments/statements/actions where Trump was actively lying about COVID or how best to respond to it?

Because, quite frankly, if you’re going to flame him for lying and misleading or being wrong, then you better be willing to apply that flaming to many, many, many other people in the government and medical community.

Fauci, Pelosi, Biden, Cuomo, Wolfe, Newsome, the CDC, the WHO, and too many others to name were ALL observed putting out inaccurate and incorrect information at one point or another. Many of them also switched stories and claims back and forth several times.

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