2021 Ravens Passing Game - What will it take to get over the hump?

[Ravenswintitle]

http://www.filmstudybaltimore.com/ar...ements-enough/

This film study podcast presents another point of view regarding the passing game. They break down plays in the Tennessee game where Lamar had trouble reading defenses and didn't throw to open receivers. If you have time it is an interesting listen.

most on this board aren't interested in that, they just want to lay everything at the feet of the offensive scheme

[QtR Nevermore]

http://www.filmstudybaltimore.com/ar...ements-enough/

This film study podcast presents another point of view regarding the passing game. They break down plays in the Tennessee game where Lamar had trouble reading defenses and didn't throw to open receivers. If you have time it is an interesting listen.

I listened. It was interesting but it cherry picked a few plays where the scheme worked, receivers were open and Lamar missed them, in just the same way that the Kurt Warner video picked a few plays where the scheme was bad, no one was open and Lamar had no one to throw to.

Between them I think they show what the scheme is; some plays designs work well and some are terrible. My question is: how is Lamar supposed to learn to trust the scheme and throw with anticipation when he doesn't know whether Hollywood is going to be wide open or surrounded by three defenders on any given play?

We need to see improvements from both Lamar and Roman because they've both contributed to the other's lack of success but, if I had to choose, an MVP QB is a rarer and more valuable asset than an OC who hasn't yet shown that he can evolve his scheme.

[L. G. Dupre]

Fair enough.

Any thoughts on how this current iteration of Greg Roman's passing offense can get to the SB like Kaep did except win?

I’m not the most knowledgeable guy about this stuff, but here goes.

Doubt that we can with the “current iteration.” Can Roman devise a new iteration and what will it take?

The two new coaching hires is encouraging, but I wonder whether it’s really possible to graft a more innovative passing attack on to Roman’s run schemes.

The criticisms of simplistic route combinations make sense to me, so that does seem like material improvement is possible either thru pattern schemes or having players smart enough to run the right routes and improvise when things break down.

We do need a third receiving threat; every successful team seems to have three that can punish you and we have only two. I was hoping Duvernay could become Smith Sr. and Dobbins could become Rice

To add an effective passing attack to our running success, we need five OL flexible enough to switch from our intricate run blocking schemes to bread and butter pass blocking. They don’t all need to be Pro Bowl quality but they all need to be at least competent at both.

In the immortal words of Roseanne Rosannadanna

https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/75126035.jpg




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

[edromeo]

Agree completely. I dont think our line is great, but its not the dumpster fire every paints it to be. It should be better next year on health alone. I'll never hate a team improving the o line.

Yep, and given the constraints of the Roman/scheme I think the OL becomes a very important avenue to improve the passing game.

Lamar's comfort in the pocket is very important and if the pass protection improves then Lamar improves along with it.
The Ravens love to run and improving the OL helps the run game which should improve the passing game because a lot of it is based on play-action and RPOs.

EDC already mentioned OL as an area to upgrade and i just read somewhere that the Ravens were looking at Joe Thuney.

They may have an issue keeping OBJ but w/ Stanley returning and the compensation if Brown should be traded should be enough to upgrade from Phillips and Fluker at RT.

[edromeo]

most on this board aren't interested in that, they just want to lay everything at the feet of the offensive scheme

Some are interested though, the thread below covered not just the Titans game but the whole season:

https://forum.russellstreetreport.co...OK)&highlight=

[edromeo]

Agreed. Every roman qb goes through the same path. Storm the league by limited passing to wide.open chunk plays and run heavy formations and a lot of qb running.

Defense adapts, qb fails to improve on being able to anticipate open wrs and reading . This creates the feedback loop where the qbz become more turnover adverse cuz they only throw when someone's wide open so deceptively their stats look much better than their play.

Then the qb basically continues to degrade without improvement.

We saw it with kaep we saw it with tygod. We have seen the first two steps with Lamar.

I think he has the talent, I dont believe in the coach. Lamar on the pats would be deadly.

On 10/14, I started a discussion titled “A Son’s Cautionary Tale.” A few people shared this concern, but more shuffled it off by saying, Kap was never any good and reciting the unbelievable 2019 offensive stats. I was only reporting a warning because i hadn’t really followed Roman’s history. Four months after more seem to se what my son warned of. Here’s what I said:

“My son, who lives in Falls Church, has followed the 49ers closely since we lived in Marin County during the Montana/Clark days. He does not follow the Ravens, but we do swap impressions of each other’s teams and try to attend one Ravens game in per every year. Last year we were at the Ravens /49ers game.

Today, out of the blue, he asked if Greg Roman is our OC. When I said yes, he offered a warning. He said that after Kapernick had the great year and took them to the Super Bowl, teams began to figure out how to defend him successfully. Roman responded by trying to turn Kapernick into a pocket passer and he and the team began a steady downhill spiral. Not a comforting story.”

In fairness Greg was forced out before Kaepernick's benching (although he didn't deserved to be benched). Still, that doesn't mean Kaepernick was playing at the same level he was in 2012 if Greg had stayed on.

They need the passing game to produce big plays which is going to rely on having superior talent at protection and receivers outplaying coverage. Roman just doesn't care about those passing game details.

I hear you guys when it comes to Roman/scheme.

As we (myself included) bang on Roman; warts and all much the 2012 49ers team did make it the SB and was a play away from winning the SB.

But, I believe the situations between the current Ravens and Tyrod-Roman and Kaep-Roman are different.

First I think its fair to say that Lamar is a clearly better QB then either Kaepernick or Tyrod.
I mean Lamar has been the MVP of the league.

And Roman was only w/ Tyrod for 1 season and like Seraph mentioned Roman wasn't really around for the Kaep's decline.
In many ways this is uncharted territory with Roman.
He's under the hottest microscope of his career and his possible ascension to head coach may hinge on what he can do with Lamar and the Raven's passing game going forward.

Now, to be clear i'm not saying I expect Roman's scheme to change by any significant measure.
I'm leaning on Lamar to be the main reason this passing game gets over the hump.
Even within Roman's limited scheme and with the current personnel...Lamar did leave some plays out there.
I think it's clear that Lamar regressed in terms of his fundamentals and mechanics as rhythm dropback passer from where he was in 2019.

More then Roman, I believe coach Urban needs to step up this year in terms of at least maintaining Lamar fundamentals and mechanics as rhythm drop back passer. Many of the issues some have mentioned fall under the duties of a QB coach:


^^Very good watch/listen...i posted it earlier in this thread:
https://forum.russellstreetreport.co...-Do&highlight=

I hope Tee Martin and Keith Williams are key factors in getting the passing game over the hump.
Although Tee Martin is the WRs coach he's also a former QB that's been an OC and helped developed QB (Darnold at USC).
The 'What Does a QB Coach Really Do?' vid ^^ sheds light on the importance of having a QB on the staff and Tee Martin brings that missing element to the team.

Keith Williams can help further develop the WRs, and brings bona fides from many of today's top WRs.

[The Excellector]

most on this board aren't interested in that, they just want to lay everything at the feet of the offensive scheme

Because this is like the fifth time that someone has posted videos like these and previous times, we've talked about how the person in the video is making broad assumptions without considering the read progression, the intended route being run and many other intangible variables. Yet, when we post videos from guys who would know a lot better (Kurt Warner, Brian Baldinger) that is just a bunch of hogwash all of a sudden. Let's not act like we've not entertained these videos in the past.

[The Excellector]

In 2012, Kaepernick's first season as a starter, they made it to the Super Bowl. It was downhill from there.

In 2019, the Ravens dominated the league and were the number 1 seed. It's going to go downhill from there.

This is what Hbg is talking about. At first, it catches the league off guard. However, after that, the league catches on and fans of Roman's scheme are left point back to that initial year, as if it's ever going to happen again and it's not.

Which is what several of us who are talking now, had been trying to say before Roman even became the OC. We knew how he was going to use Lamar. We knew what his passing schemes would look like and we knew what it would do to Lamar's development as a passer.

[WrongBaldy]

In 2012, Kaepernick's first season as a starter, they made it to the Super Bowl. It was downhill from there.

In 2019, the Ravens dominated the league and were the number 1 seed. It's going to go downhill from there.

This is what Hbg is talking about. At first, it catches the league off guard. However, after that, the league catches on and fans of Roman's scheme are left point back to that initial year, as if it's ever going to happen again and it's not.

Which is what several of us who are talking now, had been trying to say before Roman even became the OC. We knew how he was going to use Lamar. We knew what his passing schemes would look like and we knew what it would do to Lamar's development as a passer.

dont hurt em sword

[The Excellector]

dont hurt em sword

I'm almost at 'create a thread' level with this.

[The Wizard of OZ]

Because this is like the fifth time that someone has posted videos like these and previous times, we've talked about how the person in the video is making broad assumptions without considering the read progression, the intended route being run and many other intangible variables. Yet, when we post videos from guys who would know a lot better (Kurt Warner, Brian Baldinger) that is just a bunch of hogwash all of a sudden. Let's not act like we've not entertained these videos in the past.

No, I think the issue is trying to stay neutral with all of them. I wouldn't say Warner knows better. All of these guys have NFL experience. Yes he'll be a HOF QB but that doesn't mean that he would know much better. I do think one thing that fans need to realize is that everything you see on the field is the product of multiple minds, not one mind. That's why I get irritated when Roman is the scapegoat. The passing game is discussed via committee. Roman is not sitting in some room by himself drawing things up and saying this is what we will run. It's a group effort.

So I say all of that to say, as fans we are not in those meetings, we are not privy to any of those conversations. WE just see results an we don't like what we see.

[The Excellector]

So, Kurt Warner wouldn’t know more than Edgar Allen, for example?