2021 Ravens Passing Game - What will it take to get over the hump?

[The Excellector]

Roman’s offense is neither conducive to a QB reaching his ceiling as a passer, or to WRs thriving. That’s the reality of this offense. You want this offense, that’s what you get with it.

Before you can develop efficiency, you’re going to have to work toward that goal, in training camp, practice and games. You can’t keep spending most of your time on your run concepts, get into the game, only throw it 20 times and wonder why it’s not fooling teams the way it did in 2019.

Even if Lamar works on his mechanics and vision with extra emphasis, in the off-season, if you don’t reinforce that emphasis throughout practices and games throughout the season, how is a young QB like him supposed to retain what he learned as muscle memory in pressure filled intense playoff games? He’ll just revert back to what he’s most comfortable with or what the coaching staff has made him most comfortable with.

[sflegend89]

Roman’s offense is neither conducive to a QB reaching his ceiling as a passer, or to WRs thriving. That’s the reality of this offense. You want this offense, that’s what you get with it.

Before you can develop efficiency, you’re going to have to work toward that goal, in training camp, practice and games. You can’t keep spending most of your time on your run concepts, get into the game, only throw it 20 times and wonder why it’s not fooling teams the way it did in 2019.

Even if Lamar works on his mechanics and vision with extra emphasis, in the off-season, if you don’t reinforce that emphasis throughout practices and games throughout the season, how is a young QB like him supposed to retain what he learned as muscle memory in pressure filled intense playoff games? He’ll just revert back to what he’s most comfortable with or what the coaching staff has made him most comfortable with.

Agreed, you can't have your cake and eat it too. You want the Roman running scheme? Then the passing game wills suffer as a direct result, he's never had a 4000 yd passer as an OC.

Can the Ravens improve in the passing game incrementally next year? Sure. But anybody that thinks a Roman offense is ever going to excel at both is sorely mistaken. 2019 they were #1 passing DVOA but the volume was just so low that it's not nearly as thrilling as it sounded on paper. 2019 was also the year they just had everybody off guard schematically and it feels like the NFL has already re-calibrated. Don't think we have another offensive year like that up our sleeve.

Roman might be taking us down a road that leads to nowhere but Harbs/Biscuits clearly are willing to walk that path with him for one more season to find out

[The Excellector]

Agreed, you can't have your cake and eat it too. You want the Roman running scheme? Then the passing game wills suffer as a direct result, he's never had a 4000 yd passer as an OC.

Can the Ravens improve in the passing game incrementally next year? Sure. But anybody that thinks a Roman offense is ever going to excel at both is sorely mistaken. 2019 they were #1 passing DVOA but the volume was just so low that it's not nearly as thrilling as it sounded on paper. 2019 was also the year they just had everybody off guard schematically and it feels like the NFL has already re-calibrated. Don't think we have another offensive year like that up our sleeve.

Roman might be taking us down a road that leads to nowhere but Harbs/Biscuits clearly are willing to walk that path with him for one more season to find out

They’ll try to run their way to a Super Bowl. They’ll continue trying to zag, while the league zigs. Ironically, the reason it won’t work is, because in order for it to work these days, teams have to at least fear your passing offense in some fashion. Teams in the playoffs don’t fear the Ravens passing offense at all. So, no matter how well the Ravens run, they’ll hit a wall.

[jerrylogan]

Roman’s offense is neither conducive to a QB reaching his ceiling as a passer, or to WRs thriving. That’s the reality of this offense. You want this offense, that’s what you get with it.

Before you can develop efficiency, you’re going to have to work toward that goal, in training camp, practice and games. You can’t keep spending most of your time on your run concepts, get into the game, only throw it 20 times and wonder why it’s not fooling teams the way it did in 2019.

Even if Lamar works on his mechanics and vision with extra emphasis, in the off-season, if you don’t reinforce that emphasis throughout practices and games throughout the season, how is a young QB like him supposed to retain what he learned as muscle memory in pressure filled intense playoff games? He’ll just revert back to what he’s most comfortable with or what the coaching staff has made him most comfortable with.

http://www.filmstudybaltimore.com/ar...ements-enough/

This film study podcast presents another point of view regarding the passing game. They break down plays in the Tennessee game where Lamar had trouble reading defenses and didn't throw to open receivers. If you have time it is an interesting listen.

[edromeo]

Spending a ton of money on a receiver would be a bad idea, I started a thread about this. It's about efficiency, not volume. As good as Allen Robinson is I doubt he would even put up 1K yards in this offense. That doesn't mean that they shouldn't go out and try to improve the receiving corps, but if you think any pass catcher is putting up big numbers, you're crazy.

What do you think it will take to get the Ravens passing game over the hump?

[HbgPARavenfan]

I agree but I don't expect Roman to become a different game planner or play caller then who he's already shown himself to be. So as much as I want to see more spread formations (and more plays run from those formations).

Lamar needs to read the field better and anticipate - Agreed. And for me this was the most frustrating part of the season; watching the deterioration of Lamar's rhythm dropback fundamentals. This is on Lamar but the coaches especially Urban have to guide him and coach him up....all signs point to Lamar being a more then willing student. I think in season work with Urban and staff is critical to seeing the field and anticipating throws and overall fundamentals but offseason work play a key role also.

The OL when healthy is decent - but the shuffling of the OTs and the yips with the centers hurt, Lamar masks alot of the funk. But the OL needs to be improve for Lamar to improve.

Agree completely. I dont think our line is great, but its not the dumpster fire every paints it to be. It should be better next year on health alone. I'll never hate a team improving the o line.

Roman’s offense is neither conducive to a QB reaching his ceiling as a passer, or to WRs thriving. That’s the reality of this offense. You want this offense, that’s what you get with it.

Before you can develop efficiency, you’re going to have to work toward that goal, in training camp, practice and games. You can’t keep spending most of your time on your run concepts, get into the game, only throw it 20 times and wonder why it’s not fooling teams the way it did in 2019.

Agreed. Every roman qb goes through the same path. Storm the league by limited passing to wide.open chunk plays and run heavy formations and a lot of qb running.

Defense adapts, qb fails to improve on being able to anticipate open wrs and reading . This creates the feedback loop where the qbz become more turnover adverse cuz they only throw when someone's wide open so deceptively their stats look much better than their play.

Then the qb basically continues to degrade without improvement.

We saw it with kaep we saw it with tygod. We have seen the first two steps with Lamar.

I think he has the talent, I dont believe in the coach. Lamar on the pats would be deadly.

[The Excellector]

Agree completely. I dont think our line is great, but its not the dumpster fire every paints it to be. It should be better next year on health alone. I'll never hate a team improving the o line.






Agreed. Every roman qb goes through the same path. Storm the league by limited passing to wide.open chunk plays and run heavy formations and a lot of qb running.

Defense adapts, qb fails to improve on being able to anticipate open wrs and reading . This creates the feedback loop where the qbz become more turnover adverse cuz they only throw when someone's wide open so deceptively their stats look much better than their play.

Then the qb basically continues to degrade without improvement.

We saw it with kaep we saw it with tygod. We have seen the first two steps with Lamar.

I think he has the talent, I dont believe in the coach. Lamar on the pats would be deadly.

This is an exceptional post!

[L. G. Dupre]

Agree completely. I dont think our line is great, but its not the dumpster fire every paints it to be. It should be better next year on health alone. I'll never hate a team improving the o line.






Agreed. Every roman qb goes through the same path. Storm the league by limited passing to wide.open chunk plays and run heavy formations and a lot of qb running.

Defense adapts, qb fails to improve on being able to anticipate open wrs and reading . This creates the feedback loop where the qbz become more turnover adverse cuz they only throw when someone's wide open so deceptively their stats look much better than their play.

Then the qb basically continues to degrade without improvement.

We saw it with kaep we saw it with tygod. We have seen the first two steps with Lamar.

I think he has the talent, I dont believe in the coach. Lamar on the pats would be deadly.

On 10/14, I started a discussion titled “A Son’s Cautionary Tale.” A few people shared this concern, but more shuffled it off by saying, Kap was never any good and reciting the unbelievable 2019 offensive stats. I was only reporting a warning because i hadn’t really followed Roman’s history. Four months after more seem to se what my son warned of. Here’s what I said:

“My son, who lives in Falls Church, has followed the 49ers closely since we lived in Marin County during the Montana/Clark days. He does not follow the Ravens, but we do swap impressions of each other’s teams and try to attend one Ravens game in per every year. Last year we were at the Ravens /49ers game.

Today, out of the blue, he asked if Greg Roman is our OC. When I said yes, he offered a warning. He said that after Kapernick had the great year and took them to the Super Bowl, teams began to figure out how to defend him successfully. Roman responded by trying to turn Kapernick into a pocket passer and he and the team began a steady downhill spiral. Not a comforting story.”


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[edromeo]

... Lamar on the pats would be deadly.

j/k
Would be interesting to see how some other coaching staff's would have developed him.
I remember draft buzz was that both Belichick and Payton were interested in him....
Kinda a scary thought...especially the way QB's are trying to move around these days...

[edromeo]

On 10/14, I started a discussion titled “A Son’s Cautionary Tale.” A few people shared this concern, but more shuffled it off by saying, Kap was never any good and reciting the unbelievable 2019 offensive stats. I was only reporting a warning because i hadn’t really followed Roman’s history. Four months after more seem to se what my son warned of. Here’s what I said:

“My son, who lives in Falls Church, has followed the 49ers closely since we lived in Marin County during the Montana/Clark days. He does not follow the Ravens, but we do swap impressions of each other’s teams and try to attend one Ravens game in per every year. Last year we were at the Ravens /49ers game.

Today, out of the blue, he asked if Greg Roman is our OC. When I said yes, he offered a warning. He said that after Kapernick had the great year and took them to the Super Bowl, teams began to figure out how to defend him successfully. Roman responded by trying to turn Kapernick into a pocket passer and he and the team began a steady downhill spiral. Not a comforting story.”

Fair enough.

Any thoughts on how this current iteration of Greg Roman's passing offense can get to the SB like Kaep did except win?

[seraph]

On 10/14, I started a discussion titled “A Son’s Cautionary Tale.” A few people shared this concern, but more shuffled it off by saying, Kap was never any good and reciting the unbelievable 2019 offensive stats. I was only reporting a warning because i hadn’t really followed Roman’s history. Four months after more seem to se what my son warned of. Here’s what I said:

“My son, who lives in Falls Church, has followed the 49ers closely since we lived in Marin County during the Montana/Clark days. He does not follow the Ravens, but we do swap impressions of each other’s teams and try to attend one Ravens game in per every year. Last year we were at the Ravens /49ers game.

Today, out of the blue, he asked if Greg Roman is our OC. When I said yes, he offered a warning. He said that after Kapernick had the great year and took them to the Super Bowl, teams began to figure out how to defend him successfully. Roman responded by trying to turn Kapernick into a pocket passer and he and the team began a steady downhill spiral. Not a comforting story.”


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In fairness Greg was forced out before Kaepernick's benching (although he didn't deserved to be benched). Still, that doesn't mean Kaepernick was playing at the same level he was in 2012 if Greg had stayed on.

They need the passing game to produce big plays which is going to rely on having superior talent at protection and receivers outplaying coverage. Roman just doesn't care about those passing game details.

[QtR Nevermore]

Agreed. Every roman qb goes through the same path. Storm the league by limited passing to wide.open chunk plays and run heavy formations and a lot of qb running.

Defense adapts, qb fails to improve on being able to anticipate open wrs and reading . This creates the feedback loop where the qbz become more turnover adverse

I agree.

We've heard a lot about the open receivers Lamar hasn't seen, how he doesn't anticipate throws and how he double clutches and makes the throw too late.

That's all true and Lamar deserves some of the blame, but we don't hear enough about how Roman's scheme causes those very problems.

All those games where people pick out the gifs of Hollywood running wide open are the same games where we get the gifs of 2 receivers running to the same spot or where the route combination gives the QB absolutely nowhere to go with the ball.

We're happy when Lamar holds onto the ball and takes off running on the plays where another receiver's route drags a corner and a safety into the spot where the ball was intended to go, or when the play is so obvious that the defense is sitting on his only option, waiting for the ball. Yet we want him to trust the scheme and throw with anticipation at other times.

How much can we blame Lamar for wanting to see a player wide open before he throws when the OC's passing scheme repeatedly drags coverage towards the players he's targeting? How doesn't trust that players will be open because the scheme itself isn't trustworthy.