2021 Ravens Passing Game - What will it take to get over the hump?

[The Wizard of OZ]

Missed this one
OL improvement is a must.

When you say bring in a WR and TE are you talking Free Agency and draft (where in the draft) and is there a particular type of WR/TE you're looking for?


Hollywood already plays almost of 1/4 of his snaps from the slot. I wouldn't exclude Duvernay from consideration on some snaps on the outside. And I certainly wouldn't count Boykin out.

Didn't see which player you wanted in this thread. Who do you want?

I have since expanded the list after watching at least 10 guys all of which I think have the potential to be great, but I highlight two that I really like for the Ravens for similar and different reasons. Before saying who they are let me provide some criteria and context.

1. When it comes to our team, I do not think about WR's in terms of traditional X and Y. The formations we have used under Roman and the way we seem to use guys requires them to be flexible to line up anywhere.

2. For the way we play offense I like a guy that can be an extension of the running game and a threat to the defense even when he does not have the football in his hands.

3. I think we need more guys that can win in the short area and can create their own separation and not just get separation because of the play call.

4. Of course when you do not have the football you have to be a good blocker or at least willing to block.
5. I would still like more speed and explosiveness.
6. Someone who can work the Middle in the RPO game

So with that here are three guys I like a lot for us:
1. Jaylon Waddle - pipe dream unless we can get 13 in an OBJ trade. I think he fits all the criteria except #4.
2. Kadarious Toney - I think he fits everything here except #4 since UF just fed him the football a lot. I'm more excited about the prospects of using Toney being an extension of the run game and his explosiveness and ability to make guys miss than anything else. I've watched five of his games and his Senior Bowl reps. I think he could use some refinement on some routes, but what I saw with him in terms of route running reminded me of Tyler Lockett when he was coming out. And that year I pounded the table for Lockett. I think he may be faster than Lockett although some people question his long speed. While he's not quite 6'0, Toney has some physicality to him.

Here are all of his Senior Bowl reps.

He had a few drops, but I'm not concerned with it. He didn't drop one all of last year at UF. What I like is the way he sets defenders up with his route running and creates separation.

So with both of these guys I didn't see a lot of tape where they were either required to block (Toney) or the sample size is not extensive enough to say how they are as blockers (Waddle)

The thing I like about both of these guys is that they are great short and med area athletes that can create separation with their route running. Secondly, they are both dynamite with the football in their hands. Bama didn't use Waddle too much in the run game, but the Gators used Toney a lot on Jet Sweep/end around with linemen pulling.

3. Terrace Marshall - I just really like Marshall. I think if Boykin had been developed well I wouldn't even have Marshall here. The one thing I will say is I like Boykin as a blocker, but I haven't seen us use him to the capacity that LSU used Marshall. LSU lined Marshall up every where. Perimeter, slot and they used him in the RPO game; in the middle of the field and deep. So I think there is a lot that a team is going to get out of Marshall. He's not as quick as Toney nor is he as fast as Waddle, but I don't have questions about his blocking, he excels at it. I think Marshall's best route is the post, from anywhere on the field. He seems to have the built in knack for boxing defenders out especially if the ball placement is good. It doesn't even have to be great, just good.

So those are my three guys that I like most for the Ravens. I would be happy with others I just try to think about the fit in terms of what we do. With the current regime, I don't think we will ever pass outside the numbers vertically like most people want us to. We will do it, but not as much as people seem to want us to. And that's fine, to me if you are not going to do that then you need to be great at horizontal stretch and I think the first two guys can augment the horizontal and vertical game, but I like the more for the former rather than the latter. Marshall, even though he's a big guy, he has surprising short area quickness.

But here is a list of all the guys that I just like outside of these 3:

1. Rashod Bateman - I compare him to Keenan Allen. He's not overly flashy but he just seems to know the craft; know how to get open and snag the pass.
2. Ja'Marr Chase - self-explanatory.
3. Devonta Smith -self-explanatory
4. DWayne Eskridge - reminds me a lot of SSS and Emmanuel Sanders.

I'm still watching Tylan Wallace, TaMorrion Terry, Amon-Ra St. Brown.

[edromeo]

I have since expanded the list after watching at least 10 guys all of which I think have the potential to be great, but I highlight two that I really like for the Ravens for similar and different reasons.

So with that here are three guys I like a lot for us:
1. Jaylon Waddle -
2. Kadarious Toney -
3. Terrace Marshall

So those are my three guys that I like most for the Ravens...

But here is a list of all the guys that I just like outside of these 3:

1. Rashod Bateman - I compare him to Keenan Allen. He's not overly flashy but he just seems to know the craft; know how to get open and snag the pass.
2. Ja'Marr Chase - self-explanatory.
3. Devonta Smith -self-explanatory
4. DWayne Eskridge - reminds me a lot of SSS and Emmanuel Sanders.

I'm still watching Tylan Wallace, TaMorrion Terry, Amon-Ra St. Brown.

Nice list and informative too.
I'm usually a bigtime draft buff, especially WRs:
https://forum.russellstreetreport.co...ass&highlight=

But, this year I'm behind the curve....haven't even started watching film yet.
Your post was a nice primer on the WR class.

I don't think the Ravens are going to draft high enough to pick many of the WRs on your list.

If I had to guess I would say that EDC wants to give the his young WRs a chance to develop.
I don't think they are ready to give up on Hollywood as the #1 WR in this passing game.
And I bet that Hollywood being Lamar's favorite target and close friend factors in to that decision.

But, I'm not against them draft a WR, even with their top pick.
Any place they can get better, especially in the passing game is cool with me.

I think the hidden place to improve the Roman's passing game as it exists is Lamar.
Get Lamar to being the passer he was in his MVP season or better and the passing game will be fixed.
A lot of people forget that the passing game in 2019 was one of the best in the NFL and they didn't have a more WR talent then last year unless you think Roberts was the difference.

I think the offseason will be important.
I think Lamar/Urban need to have a bounce back year in term of Lamar's fundamentals as rhythm dropback passer and decision maker.
I think the new hires, especially Tee Martin could be huge for Lamar.
Tee Martin is a former QB and former OC.
Having a view from a QB perspective is imho a key missing element in the coaching staff.
And Keith Williams will be able to help the WRs develop.

Johnny Reg, RWT and Lax mentioned adding another TE and they sold me.
One of the non-WR differences in the passing game was the loss of Hurst and the injury to Boyle.
So adding another TE to the mix could help Lamar/passing game get back to where they were in 2019.

And all of this is predicated on Stanley return, improving the RG and RT and not snapping the ball into the dirt or over his head a few times.

[HbgPARavenfan]

Big fan of Bateman long term. But I dont know if it matters who our wrs are anymore

[edromeo]

Joshua Harris on What Lamar Needs to Improve
05:27 / 12:23

https://www.radio.com/1057thefan/authors/vinny-haynie

great, must listen!

[Jfoh]

Unless we change from our run first game plan it does not matter who is our wr. 20-25 passes a game is almost not worth game planning for our passing attack. Just stop the run and react to the pass.

You need to have the safeties keep back just to keep us honest but other than that nobody is a risk to get open deep. Hollywood is looking to go down as soon a he catches the ball. There is not one drop of Boldin in him. So safeties just need to keep him in front of them and he is as good as tackled.

Our TE are not scoring long TDs. We have no burst threat other than LJ and maybe Dobbins or Edward’s. When you backs are your down field threat you have no deep game. Good teams understand that to beat us they just need to tackle well and if we fall behind we can not catch up. Every penalty or mistake can kill a drive against a good team. If we get behind the sticks we struggle. Get the lead and we can steam roller teams. Story of our playoffs.

[edromeo]

The 2020 passing offense was a failure, not because of volume, because Ravens/Roman passing volume will ikely always be low. In 2019 they were 28th yardage but I don't think many would call that passing game a failure. Most TD passes in the NFL. QB was league MVP. 12th in YPA. 4th in 1st down %. Passing DVOA was 1st. 2020 Pass DVOA was 17th. 18th in YPA. 22nd in 1st down.

Equally as important the passing game failed in the areas the staff themselves identified they wanted to address in the 2020 offseason.
Harbaugh, DeCosta and Roman all expressed the desire to become a more explosive offense especially deep and outside the numbers.
But in those areas the passing offense did not improve.

Excluding the QB position for a second it seems quite clear that biggest factor impacting the passing game was the pass protection.
Stanley went down, couldn't find a league average player at RG and couldn't find a league average at RT after Orlando Brown moved to LT and couldn't find consistent play from the Center spot especially snapping the ball.

I think the biggest area for improvement in 2021 will be from pass protection. The return of Ronnie Stanley in and of itself goes a long way to fixing the OL because it allows Brown to move back to RT and solidify that spot and allows the front office to focus on addressing the C and LG positions.

The next area of improvement comes from the QB position. I think Lamar's regression in passing game fundamentals was a clear limiting factor imo.
This is backed up by his play, stats and by a number of media analyst including Lamar's own off-season QB coach Joshua Harris.
There were many times on film that Lamar missed a read or missed a throw due to sloppy/undisciplined QB fundamentals.
For me that is failure on the coaching staff, specifically the QB coach. He's responsible for the QB fundamentals. Urban was able to maintain Lamar's fundamentals throughout the 2019 season and hopefully he can do it again in 2021. But the offseason is an area where Lamar can improve.
Having a more "normal" offseason getting to throw with the receivers and getting additional fundamental work through Josh Harris or other sources like Tom House or Jordan Palmer.

Pass protection + QB fundamentals

I wish I could speak about scheme improvements....but those appear unlikely given the majority of the staff is returning. But depending on who they bring in to replace the WR coach there could be a new lease on life for the WR corps. So maybe the new WR allocates playing time different and may have more influence over where the targets go. But, this is just hopeful thinking...no real reason to expect drastic differences in scheme or usage.

There is a saying in football that there are 2 ways gain the upper hand: scheme or personnel.
Doesn't appear there are going to be significant scheme/coaching changes.
But, there is a chance that there will be personnel additions and hopefully upgrades to the receiving group.

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Can this passing game get over the hump?

What will it take?

Will the return of Stanley and Lamar's improved fundamentals be enough to field a SB winning passing game?

What level of personnel upgrades do you think are needed? What personnel upgrades do you think are likely?

[edromeo]

[edromeo]

1-on-1: Keith Williams Discusses Role, Experience Coaching NFL Stars | Baltimore Ravens

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Another must watch!

[edromeo]

...3. Terrace Marshall - I just really like Marshall.
But here is a list of all the guys that I just like outside of these 3:

1. Rashod Bateman - I compare him to Keenan Allen. He's not overly flashy but he just seems to know the craft; know how to get open and snag the pass.

I'm still watching Tylan Wallace, TaMorrion Terry, Amon-Ra St. Brown.

I started watching WRs.

I've heard draft media say this is a deep WR draft but outside of the top guys there aren't many X WRs there are tons of slot guys though.

Right now I can't separate Terrance Marshall and Rashod Bateman. I guess i would give the nod to Bateman right now.
Either way I looked up their drop rates and was surprised....also surprised it hasn't been mentioned considered how often guys in this forum mention drops...both of those guys drops rate are over 10%. 14% for Bateman and 13% for Marshall.

I love Amon-Ra's name but wanted to see more wow on his tape.
Tamarrion Terry has his own thread, and his 2019 was sick.
A guy I haven't heard mentioned that I like mid round(?) is Cornell Powell, Clemson.

Was watching some Tylan Wallace today also not as big as some want, but he does stuff like this:

[edromeo]

Good article/conversation on the new coaches:

https://www.filmstudybaltimore.com/n...-game-coaches/

Like I was saying in the OP, I think Tee Martin brings more to the table then just WRs coach.
The dude has been an OC and playcaller in college. He's groomed QBs. He actually broke into coaching w/ QBs.

https://ukathletics.com/news/2015/7/...68019704395010

[edromeo]

I think the Ravens did a great job of improving the passing game.

They added Kevin Zeitler, Alejandro Villaneuava and Ben Cleveland.

They have upgraded the starting OL significantly. This might be the best starting OL since Lamar has been the QB.

They upgraded the starting WR corps and overall room.
Rashod Bateman, Sammy Watkins and Tylan Wallace (mentioned earlier in this thread)

The TEs group didn't receive a big name upgrades but they were addressing TE3 and depth as opposed to starters.
They added a developmental receiving TE via free agency that fits the athletic profile of Andrews and Hurst in Oliver.
They also added a versatile big body "classic" TE in udfa Tony Poljan
And they have udfa Breeland coming off injury reserve from last year.

The upgraded the coaching at the WR specifically and QB tangentially w/ Tee Martin, WR coach.
But he's a former QB himself, developed QBs in college (Darnold), he's been an playcaller and offensive coordinator in college and he's coached QBs.
They also added one of the best 'WR skills' coaches in football w/ Keith Williams.

I think last year was the worst this passing game/offense will even be with Lamar at helm.
I don't expect a meaningful change in attempts or volume but the quality as far as YPA, QBR, DVOA, PFF should improve back to top in the NFL levels.

The remaining factor is Lamar himself.

He's the type of player that is proven to put the work in.
He proved it with the improvement he made from his rookie to season to MVP season.
It sucks that the NFLPA/Ravens opted out of voluntary team stuff.
Now its a matter of getting the people working with him in the offseason and coaching him during the season to challenge him to take his game to the next level.
But, hopefully Lamar will get with Josh Harris and Tom House's team and get some quality fundamental passing game development.


The future for the passing game looks bright.

[Julius486]

Very, very much agree with Ed. I have high expectations for this team, and I just personally can't wait.