Telling comment by Ozzie Newsome

[edromeo]

Thank you Ed. I'm just not much for going back and forth on a message board, hopefully you can understand that.

It would have been easier to understand if you didn't then follow these posts....

You're welcome Rev. Other things I didn't mention are being able to run a route the same way consistently. His long strides hurt him there. Mainly it's timing. He's a second late turning his head. He can't stop on a dime and adjust to a pass. The CB always finds it first. Think about the postseason INT. Bad throw by Lamar but Boykin couldn't even get close to the CB, CB found it first and made the play. It's important to win the route early and look for the QB. Countless times Lamar's looking his way and Boykin's not defining when he's making his move. Lamar can't trust him. Does that makes sense Rev?

This reads like a bunch of general impression opinions. Did you know that there was a thread that covered almost every play that Miles that we had video access for?

https://forum.russellstreetreport.co...08#post2055208

That would have been a perfect place to show your opinions with the benefit of film.

A lot of your opinion on Miles comes off as generic knocks.
Generic criticism are easy and can be spurious because at some point or another every WR will exhibit them.
Making blanket statements are also misleading....can't stop on dime......cb always finds it first....without the support of evidence or film comes across as empty can kinda slanted...borderline hatchet job. If we making true analysis its important to know how often the issue occurs and how it compares to other receivers or knowing how often is too often renders or else the statements comes across as empty or unsupported.

The receiver you describe should have been easy to replace correct? Why not bench him and go with all the other better receivers?

Notice in the video he's not beating a CB one-on-one

Scratching my head....he does beat some CBs one-on-one, its literally on the film you posted.

Also, you never answered my question from before when you asked this question:

...How many receptions is he getting when lined up outside the numbers?

Would it change anything if I listed them?

...and making a tough, contested catch. He's got to be wide open, defensive breakdown or finding a spot in zone/prevent. I think his role should be Andrews' backup as a "slot Rec TE". We have Boyle and Ricard to block in-line, next to the Tackle.

You mention 2 factors that Miles doesn't control. Miles doesn't control whether or not he receivers contested catches. And btw, he had 6 contested targets.
He doesn't have to be wide open either but it doesn't make sense to knock a receiver for gaining the separation to get wide open...(and by your own comments he shouldn't even be able to get wide open because of all the flaws he has as a route runner).

I see Miles as a receiver whose success or failure is unknown because of limited targets.

It appears you see a back-up TE? Which is someone that can't play WR? Is that correct?

[Huddle It Up Films]

It would have been easier to understand if you didn't then follow these posts....
I wasn't talking to you again, I was asking someone else about his opinion

Generic criticism are easy and can be spurious because at some point or another every WR will exhibit them.
Making blanket statements are also misleading....can't stop on dime......cb always finds it first....without the support of evidence or film comes across as empty can kinda slanted...borderline hatchet job.
My criticisms are based off of studying All 22 film for years. If anything, your blind agenda of defending Miles is a hatchet job and it's not borderline.

[B]The receiver you describe should have been easy to replace correct? Why not bench him and go with all the other better receivers?
Yes, he is easily replaceable. Bringing in and activating Dez should've been your first clue. I posted here in response to Ozzie's comment.

Scratching my head....he does beat some CBs one-on-one, its literally on the film you posted.
He beat a CB three times in the video; play 5, play 12 & play 19. That's three times all season, unless you consider a 5 yard stop route vs off coverage "beating a CB". Not exactly sure what your actual question is but he caught 6 passes when originally lined up outside the numbers. Yes, any NFL WR can run a 5 yard route vs off coverage and catch a pass.

Here are the 22 passes he caught in order per the video... *indicates originally lined up outside the numbers

1) Drag route vs zone
2) Check down in flat
3) 3rd & 27, 5 yd slant vs off coverage*
4) 5 yd stop route vs LB
5) Slant route beats CB*
6) Short In route vs zone (between LBs)
7) 5 yd Stop route vs off coverage*
8) Drag route vs zone
9) Stop route vs LB, finds space
10) Fake punt
11) Out route vs off coverage, about 10 yds (I guess you can say he beat a CB on this one so count it if you want)*
12) Bang 8 or slant vs off coverage
13) Corner route vs LB in red zone
14) Check down in flat
15) Busted coverage vs Dallas, not covered
16) Dig route vs zone
17) Drag route vs zone
18) Another Drag vs zone
19) Beats CB on Post, no safety help*
20) 5 yd Curl vs zone
21) 5 yd Out vs off*
22) 5 yd In vs soft zone

There you have it. Lastly, I posted this out of respect for you and Tony's board. I truly appreciate RSR. But I'm not spending anymore time discussing Boykin. Very busy with draft stuff and am working on another video of Lamar inside the pocket. Boykin will/should be replaced as an X WR with someone better than an old Dez. And yes, as I said before, he can play a role on this team as a slot WR/TE and can be Andrews' back up in that role. His blocking would translate well in that role too. He can find space in zone, as the video illustrates.

Consistently beating CBs outside the numbers is not something I will depend on Miles for in a season we can compete to win it all. He's had two years and is basically the same player he was coming out of college. There is hope, but he's developed very slowly. Hollywood on the other hand is ready to take off if he has help on the other side.

[edromeo]

This encounter with you has been quite strange and funny.

But, if that’s how you roll so be it. Hard to have a discussion with blanket statements.

Wish, we could have an actual conversation about the plays on film. It’s not like there was a thread that literally covered all of Miles plays that were available.

There are plenty of WRs that make a living on the type of targets that you are somehow denying Miles credit for making. If he was so easily replaceable you would think Snead, Duvernay, Dez or heck any WR off the street would have been an easy upgrade.

But, hey I don’t want to take up any more of your time.

Good talk.
I got your post mixed up with someone that wanted to have a discussion and not someone who wanted to post their opinions as fact unchallenged.

[Huddle It Up Films]

I got your post mixed up with someone that wanted to have a discussion and not someone who wanted to post their opinions as fact unchallenged.

Yes, I was posting my opinion on Ozzie's statement, which is what this thread is about. Definitely wasn't looking for a back and forth on Boykin.

You haven't addressed or debunked any of my conclusions either. I just showed you all of his catches and stated my observations after watching him for two years (regardless of whether he's targeted or not). And you confuse me with a casual making blanket statements.

There are reasons Lamar doesn't trust him and you seem to ignore why that is. There are also reasons he doesn't earn being the first read more often.

Also (since you're into judging people you don't know), after I read through some of the Boykin thread and the responses you were getting, I now understand why this is a sensitive subject for you. You seem to be emotionally invested in being right on Miles. I'm not and that's why I usually don't spend time debating on message boards. I simply put out tape of what I see and evaluate players without emotional investment. Take it or leave it, judge for yourself.

It's okay to be wrong, we all make mistakes. When we trade Zeus for a WR or spend resources on one, that will be another indication that Ozzie and the organization feel how many of us do about Miles.

I'm rooting for him and think he can improve. But if you've seen enough to think he's our starting X WR in 2021, c'mon that's just emotion or lack of understanding without trying to learn. Your passive/aggressive insinuations are further indication of that.

To everyone else on RSR, best wishes and Go Ravens! Follow me on twitter or youtube if you'd like. I'm finished here though.

[edromeo]

Wow, lol this ‘discussion’ really took an unpredictable turn.

You started off with:

“Was surprised all year by how many defended him, tried to post whatever positive clips existed and point to analytics to justify his lack of impact”

None of the above is true and that should have clued me into the direction our “discussion” was headed. When I responded to the statement above from your entry post your response was this:

“I wasn't talking about anyone on this board, I barely post here and don't look at every page in the film thread.”

Do you see the lack of congruencey there?

You went on to make other incongruous blanket/generic statements, like saying:

“Notice in the video he's not beating a CB one-on-one”

Then later after I point that your own vid shows him Miles beating CBs one-on-one then you begrudgingly admit that he did beat some CBs one-on-one. It’s just an easy example that blankets statements are troublesome when trying to have a discussion....but then again we’re not really having a discussion.

One thing you said that was kinda consistent was that you:

“I'm just not much for going back and forth on a message board”

That part has certainly proved true. You wanted to post your opinion as fact and move on. But the strange thing about message boards is that people get to respond to your posts.

Look I mean you no animus, I figured since we’d already had film based discussions in other threads that we were starting with some common ground. My mistake.

But, do me one small favor. Don’t sink to the level of purposefully misrepresenting other peoples views. I’ve made my view on Miles clear. So when you refer to my view on Miles at the very least get that part right.

I’ll even repost it here for you:

-“I see Miles as a receiver whose success or failure is unknown because of limited targets.”

-“I’m not saying he’s a world beater. I am saying that Miles lack of production is more a result of scheme and QB play them bad plays by Miles. The result is a receiver that has shown the greatest route variety, best ability against press, very few drops, high true catch rate, and had a very low % of accurate passes thrown to him. No receiver was hurt more by Lamar’s regression and Lamar’s affinity for throwing to Hollywood then Miles.”

Cheers

[Mmcclend]

I got your post mixed up with someone that wanted to have a discussion and not someone who wanted to post their opinions as fact unchallenged.

Yes, I was posting my opinion on Ozzie's statement, which is what this thread is about. Definitely wasn't looking for a back and forth on Boykin.

You haven't addressed or debunked any of my conclusions either. I just showed you all of his catches and stated my observations after watching him for two years (regardless of whether he's targeted or not). And you confuse me with a casual making blanket statements.

There are reasons Lamar doesn't trust him and you seem to ignore why that is. There are also reasons he doesn't earn being the first read more often.

Also (since you're into judging people you don't know), after I read through some of the Boykin thread and the responses you were getting, I now understand why this is a sensitive subject for you. You seem to be emotionally invested in being right on Miles. I'm not and that's why I usually don't spend time debating on message boards. I simply put out tape of what I see and evaluate players without emotional investment. Take it or leave it, judge for yourself.

It's okay to be wrong, we all make mistakes. When we trade Zeus for a WR or spend resources on one, that will be another indication that Ozzie and the organization feel how many of us do about Miles.

I'm rooting for him and think he can improve. But if you've seen enough to think he's our starting X WR in 2021, c'mon that's just emotion or lack of understanding without trying to learn. Your passive/aggressive insinuations are further indication of that.

To everyone else on RSR, best wishes and Go Ravens! Follow me on twitter or youtube if you'd like. I'm finished here though.

Huge facts!

[edromeo]

Ozzie was on Shannon Sharpe's podcast (Club Shay Shay) a couple days ago, and was asked about the thought process behind signing Dez Bryant post Achilles injury, etc.

His answer was interesting.

"He provides a bigger target when we get down into the red area, you know...we've got Marquise, and we've got Duvernay, and we've got Willie Snead, but now we have a more bigger, physical receiver down in the red area that can make some contested catches, 'cause you know, things are tight when you get down in the red area, with a guy who can go up and make some contested catches."

No mention of Boykin at all.

The fact that they felt the need to sign Dez for that purpose, and when specifically listing the WRs under consideration, Boykin was excluded (despite having a far higher workload in terms of snap count), I find that to be an indictment of how the front office views Boykin's development (as well as an endorsement of Duvernay going forward).

OMG the first WR the new WR coach spoke about was Miles Boykin!

It doesn't mean anything to me, but as soon as he said it I thought of this thread and how the tea leave whispers would feel about it. Joking aside, interview:

[seraph]

You're welcome Rev. Other things I didn't mention are being able to run a route the same way consistently. His long strides hurt him there. Mainly it's timing. He's a second late turning his head. He can't stop on a dime and adjust to a pass. The CB always finds it first. Think about the postseason INT. Bad throw by Lamar but Boykin couldn't even get close to the CB, CB found it first and made the play. It's important to win the route early and look for the QB. Countless times Lamar's looking his way and Boykin's not defining when he's making his move. Lamar can't trust him. Does that makes sense Rev?

Notice in the video he's not beating a CB one-on-one and making a tough, contested catch. He's got to be wide open, defensive breakdown or finding a spot in zone/prevent. I think his role should be Andrews' backup as a "slot Rec TE". We have Boyle and Ricard to block in-line, next to the Tackle.

>"It's Boykin's fault he didn't turn his head 180 degrees just as he's coming out of his break to look for a ball thrown nowhere near him going to a defender".

Wow.

[JimZipCode]

>"It's Boykin's fault he didn't turn his head 180 degrees just as he's coming out of his break to look for a ball thrown nowhere near him going to a defender".

Wow.

Yah, that's quite a take. He's running full speed to the sideline, and it's his fault he didn't break up the INT on a ball thrown to a defender inside the hash.

[ravensfan7716]

OMG the first WR the new WR coach spoke about was Miles Boykin!

It doesn't mean anything to me, but as soon as he said it I thought of this thread and how the tea leave whispers would feel about it. Joking aside, interview:

I had no idea Tee Martin son was Amari Rogers WR from Clemson entering the draft this year.

He has the playmaking ability that is used properly might thrive here. He is a slot WR with solid build, reminds me of steve Smith body type. Really good hands and can run decent routes.


What is the over under Decosta does a coach a solid and drafts his son?

[WrongBaldy]

Probably have AJ Green at the top of their WR wish list...

The only over 30 years old WR's I would consider are Adam Thielen and Julio Jones.

this was 2 years ago lol

[The Excellector]

this was 2 years ago lol

Oh my God. It was two years ago. Lol.