Senior Bowl

[Shas]

I won't comment on the "running all the routes" thing. Harbaugh's statement is hardly a good defense against this talk that the routes are simple, predictable and easy to defend.

But he is right to object when people squawk about a 32nd ranked passing offense. It's misleading. They are 32nd in total yards. They are also 32nd in total attempts. They'd throw more if they weren't so damn good at running the ball and controlling the clock. And if they threw it more they'd have more passing yards. They could easily be the 10th best running team and 20th best passing team.

No one should want that. When Roman got away from the run last year, they didn't cheer him, the wanted to kill him.

It is those who don't want them to be a running team to begin with, and want to have a traditional passing offense, who are quick to point to this stat to dramatize the problem. It's easy to say, "32nd ranked passing offense is not sufficient" when you don't consider any context. But it's merely an opinion, not a fact, and it needs to be considered with other facts.

They are 14th in overall QBR. They are eighteenth in yards per pass attempted. They are seventh in TD passing percentage.

Those are the kind of numbers Harbaugh is looking at when the talks about efficiency, and wanting to get more efficient. I believe they can be a dominate running team and also be more effective when the do throw the ball, even if it stays near the bottom in total attempts.

[QtR Nevermore]

I believe they can be a dominate running team and also be more effective when the do throw the ball, even if it stays near the bottom in total attempts.

Can they be a more efficient passing team - a team who can win through passing if that's what the defense gives us, without working more standard passing concepts into their week to week gameplan? I think they have to and that will inevitably mean less volume from the running game.

[leachisabeast]

I won't comment on the "running all the routes" thing. Harbaugh's statement is hardly a good defense against this talk that the routes are simple, predictable and easy to defend.

But he is right to object when people squawk about a 32nd ranked passing offense. It's misleading. They are 32nd in total yards. They are also 32nd in total attempts. They'd throw more if they weren't so damn good at running the ball and controlling the clock. And if they threw it more they'd have more passing yards. They could easily be the 10th best running team and 20th best passing team.

No one should want that. When Roman got away from the run last year, they didn't cheer him, the wanted to kill him.

It is those who don't want them to be a running team to begin with, and want to have a traditional passing offense, who are quick to point to this stat to dramatize the problem. It's easy to say, "32nd ranked passing offense is not sufficient" when you don't consider any context. But it's merely an opinion, not a fact, and it needs to be considered with other facts.

They are 14th in overall QBR. They are eighteenth in yards per pass attempted. They are seventh in TD passing percentage.

Those are the kind of numbers Harbaugh is looking at when the talks about efficiency, and wanting to get more efficient. I believe they can be a dominate running team and also be more effective when the do throw the ball, even if it stays near the bottom in total attempts.

And this is why we need an elite OL over one elite WR

[QtR Nevermore]

It's easy to say, "32nd ranked passing offense is not sufficient" when you don't consider any context. But it's merely an opinion, not a fact, and it needs to be considered with other facts.

They are 14th in overall QBR. They are eighteenth in yards per pass attempted. They are seventh in TD passing percentage.

Those are the kind of numbers Harbaugh is looking at when the talks about efficiency, and wanting to get more efficient.

I think those passing efficiency numbers are just as misleading as the 32nd ranking. If defenses are giving up the pass to stop the run, it will naturally be more efficient. I bet Kansas City have a really efficient run game because they only run when defenses give it to them cause they're focused on defending the pass.

[Davesta]

And this is why we need an elite OL over one elite WR

Agreed.

A popular name is going to be Creed Humphrey. A true center prospect. Does EDC dip into the OU pool again?

There seems to be character concerns with him though. Hopefully EDC have good intel on OU players by now.

https://twitter.com/seniorbowl/statu...605112832?s=21

[Ravenswintitle]

And this is why we need an elite OL over one elite WR

Maybe we can find one in the draft or Senior Bowl

[WNCRavensFan]

No combine and limited college football makes it a trade down draft for me. More guesses probably beats trusting your evaluations with limited information.

I agree; however I will give this word of warning: the three times the Ravens have drafted without a 1st round pick (2004, 2010, 2012) they've had bad results.

[GOTA]

I won't comment on the "running all the routes" thing. Harbaugh's statement is hardly a good defense against this talk that the routes are simple, predictable and easy to defend.

But he is right to object when people squawk about a 32nd ranked passing offense. It's misleading. They are 32nd in total yards. They are also 32nd in total attempts. They'd throw more if they weren't so damn good at running the ball and controlling the clock. And if they threw it more they'd have more passing yards. They could easily be the 10th best running team and 20th best passing team.

No one should want that. When Roman got away from the run last year, they didn't cheer him, the wanted to kill him.

It is those who don't want them to be a running team to begin with, and want to have a traditional passing offense, who are quick to point to this stat to dramatize the problem. It's easy to say, "32nd ranked passing offense is not sufficient" when you don't consider any context. But it's merely an opinion, not a fact, and it needs to be considered with other facts.

They are 14th in overall QBR. They are eighteenth in yards per pass attempted. They are seventh in TD passing percentage.

Those are the kind of numbers Harbaugh is looking at when the talks about efficiency, and wanting to get more efficient. I believe they can be a dominate running team and also be more effective when the do throw the ball, even if it stays near the bottom in total attempts.

Here is where Greg Roman ranks in passing attempts as an OC:

2011 SFO 31st
2012 SFO 31st
2013 SFO 32nd
2014 SFO 29th
2015 BUF 31st
2016 BUF 32nd
2019 BAL 32nd
2020 BAL 32nd

This isn't about offensive lines or even being great at rushing. It's Greg Roman's philosophy. He doesn't want to throw the ball. This is the same patten for a decade with 3 different teams and 3 different quarterbacks.

I agree with you that the attempts can't be something that matters to Harbaugh. He's knows these attempts numbers and obviously doesn't care. Roman was still able to get 1000 yard receiving seasons from Crabtree and Boldin and Sammy Watkins so I'm hoping that with the right WR the Ravens can improve the way that you suggest.

[QtR Nevermore]

Does anyone else picture Terry Bradshaw handing off to Jim Brown or something when they see the words Senior Bowl?

[John Reglarperson]

What is vague about him saying "he saying he doesnt see anything wrong with their passing scheme"?
He said his receivers run all the routes.

That is not being vague, that is being blind to reality.

The 32nd ranked passing offense is not sufficient to be a playoff contender.

Yeah, not possible for the 32nd ranked passing offense to be a playoff contender.

And, actually making the playoffs? No way.

Winning a playoff game, with the 32nd passing offense? You'd have to be crazy to think that there's any shot of that happening.

Wait, all those things happened this year.

I guess you're 100% wrong.

[John Reglarperson]

Here is where Greg Roman ranks in passing attempts as an OC:

2011 SFO 31st
2012 SFO 31st
2013 SFO 32nd
2014 SFO 29th
2015 BUF 31st
2016 BUF 32nd
2019 BAL 32nd
2020 BAL 32nd

This isn't about offensive lines or even being great at rushing. It's Greg Roman's philosophy. He doesn't want to throw the ball. This is the same patten for a decade with 3 different teams and 3 different quarterbacks.

I agree with you that the attempts can't be something that matters to Harbaugh. He's knows these attempts numbers and obviously doesn't care. Roman was still able to get 1000 yard receiving seasons from Crabtree and Boldin and Sammy Watkins so I'm hoping that with the right WR the Ravens can improve the way that you suggest.

And in every one of those full seasons (2016 was only 2 games), Roman's team was .500 or better, and in 5 of those 7 years, they went to the playoffs, went to the Championship game twice and the Super Bowl once.

[Shas]

I think those passing efficiency numbers are just as misleading as the 32nd ranking. If defenses are giving up the pass to stop the run, it will naturally be more efficient. I bet Kansas City have a really efficient run game because they only run when defenses give it to them cause they're focused on defending the pass.

Well, first off, I agree and disagree on the first point. I'd bet half of the Ravens passes come on obvious passing downs, third and medium or long, for instance. There is little element of surprise there. Where you could have a point is when team throws in unexpected situations, like first down. However, more than a third of the Ravens throws were on first down, which ties for merely 11th least. The spread between the the team that passes the most on first down, the Titans, and the Ravens is less than 6% of snaps. The Ravens averaged throwing on first down 9 times a game...the Titans 13.

Your point that KC's great passing game probably makes it easier on their running game is absolutely correct. But this logic is driving me absolutely insane.

When having a strong passing game helps KC's running game, it is lauded. When having a strong running game helps Baltimore's passing game it's ridiculed. That's insanity.

Using the run to open up the passing game is as old as football and a perfectly valid strategy. What's misleading about that? We can disagree, but I when I say the Ravens are efficient throwing the ball—without mentioning that this is helped by their strong running game—I don't think I am being misleading.

That's entirely different than someone saying the Ravens have "the 32nd ranked passing offense" without mentioning this is actually just a reflection of throwing the ball less than everyone else, so the volume isn't there to drive up the total...leaving out that when they do thow it they are pretty efficient.

What I am describing is the Ravens offense exactly as they designed it and want to run it.

That said, I think it's fair to say they might want to rebalance their run-pass. Having the most rush and fewest pass attempts probably should not be the goal, even if they are going to be a strong running team. You mentioned KC. They throw it the most in the league, but they still run it 22nd most. That's closer to the ideal balance probably, I will admit. The Steelers threw it most often and ran it 28th most, and that was unhealthy. They ran it that infrequently because they sucked running it, with the lowest YPC average in the league. By the way, notice how their proclivity to throw it did nothing to improve their rushing efficiency, as theorized with KC.

This isn't about offensive lines or even being great at rushing. It's Greg Roman's philosophy. He doesn't want to throw the ball.

One last point. We all need to note that Ravens' led the league in number of rushing attempts at 555. But that is not completely a reflection of Roman wanting to run the ball.

Lamar, who played in 15 games, was responsible for about 30% of that total, with 159 rushing attempts. I am going to guess that 100 of those rushing attempts were scrambles. If Lamar had 100 more passing attempts, meaning 100 fewer rushing attempts, they would have been the 12th most rushing attempts and 6th fewest passing attempts.

Lamar runs so often because receivers can't get open, or more probably, he is getting pressured.

So when Harbaugh says that improving the offensive line is priority one, and they pull it off, I think we can expect a lot more called passing plays to result in passes. If they can both improve the line and bring in a receiver who presents a more reliable target, then I feel even more confident we won't belaboring this point this time next year.

Where we can question Roman in all this is whether, in his history, his scheme has done enough to get receivers open or protect the QB long enough. That's what needs to change. We'll see if he can do it.