What They're Saying About the Ravens

[The Excellector]

Basically, the WRs we have are very frustrated.

[elland]

Great point!
And teams will pick up on some of our coaching and their stubborn tendencies. I text a buddy today saying how stubborn Harbs is and how set in his ways he is.

We talk about what “they’re” saying about the Ravens... How about what the Ravens are saying about the Ravens. Hollywood and Snead. Dez posting a video on his IG of a practice and Hollywood reposting it and players from the team commenting on it.

It makes you how much of a disconnect between Roman and the players (particularly WRs) there is. If he stays around and it continues down this path next season could turn ugly for the Baltimore Ravens.


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Playoffs baby.. you do know that Harbs is ranked 10th in PO win.. And No Arians, McDermot or La Fleur can pass him.. even if they win SB this year and next year.

Tomlin, Payton and Carroll could.. they have also been in the leauge longer than Harbs, and Tomlin and Payton is beginning to reach a QB problem.

[Iamjacks]

Greg Cosell :
I've always been a believer in that coaching staffs tell you about what they think about their QB by what they do. Baltimore does not want to throw the ball. So they're telling us at this point in Lamar's career what they think of him in the context of their passing game which by the way is very Basic. So again. People can draw their own conclusions. But the fact is they do not want to throw the ball unless they absolutely have to. So they are telling you what they think of both Lamar and the passing game. We do not have to interpret that Ross, they are telling you that.

Ross Tucker (Justin's brother from another mother): Right but can't you make the other argument that they think they are so good at running and they are so much better running, that they don't...

GC: - CUTS OFF RT-
They are so good at running and in their last two playoff losses they scored 12 points and 3 points. I had a great conversation with an offensive coach this past week on Monday, who basically said 'this is where they will be stuck until their pass game, and by extension Lamar Jackson, develops much more significantly.' So We'll see how that goes. Unfortunately we may have another pandemic offseason and the things I'm sure they want to work on with Lamar might be difficult to work on because it's very difficult to work on things through zoom. So we'll see where they go, but right now their pass game is pretty basic and they're telling you how they want to play. They are telling you they want to be one dimensional. Now is that one dimension great? It can be phenomenal! But I think if you spoke to most coaches, offensive coaches! in this league they would tell you it's very difficult to win big games in the playoffs being one dimensional on offense.

He needs to be developed much more in the passing game.

[Iamjacks]

Mutiny 2021. Hopefully the front office and coaches realize something has to change with the Ravens passing offense.

Players are signaling they’ve had enough.

They realize that, it's if Harbaugh is savage enough to fix it. All statements indicate the contrary.

[Raveninwoodlawn]

Greg Cosell :
I've always been a believer in that coaching staffs tell you about what they think about their QB by what they do. Baltimore does not want to throw the ball. So they're telling us at this point in Lamar's career what they think of him in the context of their passing game which by the way is very Basic. So again. People can draw their own conclusions. But the fact is they do not want to throw the ball unless they absolutely have to. So they are telling you what they think of both Lamar and the passing game. We do not have to interpret that Ross, they are telling you that.

Ross Tucker (Justin's brother from another mother): Right but can't you make the other argument that they think they are so good at running and they are so much better running, that they don't...

GC: - CUTS OFF RT-
They are so good at running and in their last two playoff losses they scored 12 points and 3 points. I had a great conversation with an offensive coach this past week on Monday, who basically said 'this is where they will be stuck until their pass game, and by extension Lamar Jackson, develops much more significantly.' So We'll see how that goes. Unfortunately we may have another pandemic offseason and the things I'm sure they want to work on with Lamar might be difficult to work on because it's very difficult to work on things through zoom. So we'll see where they go, but right now their pass game is pretty basic and they're telling you how they want to play. They are telling you they want to be one dimensional. Now is that one dimension great? It can be phenomenal! But I think if you spoke to most coaches, offensive coaches! in this league they would tell you it's very difficult to win big games in the playoffs being one dimensional on offense.

He needs to be developed much more in the passing game.

Very true IMHO.

I keep comparing this to the run and shoot offense...the exact opposite of what we are doing. Moon and that offense put up some great passing numbers, it confounded a lot of defenses because it was so different. You heard the same thing about how innovative it was and how it put so much pressure on defense and was hard to defend...you had 4 WR's adjusting their routes depending on defensive coverages and leverages. Defenses hated playing against it. Warren Moon was winning awards. However, they won 1 playoff game in 5 seasons (made the playoffs every year but were 1-4) in part due to not being able to hold onto leads due to not being able to run the ball when needed.

You need some balance here. And I agree with Cossell...even on this board, you can tell how people aren't fully comfortable with Lamar throwing because it goes apeshit almost anytime we approach a 50-50 split in play calling that we should only be running the ball.

[s.r.genovese]

Very true IMHO.

I keep comparing this to the run and shoot offense...the exact opposite of what we are doing. Moon and that offense put up some great passing numbers, it confounded a lot of defenses because it was so different. You heard the same thing about how innovative it was and how it put so much pressure on defense and was hard to defend...you had 4 WR's adjusting their routes depending on defensive coverages and leverages. Defenses hated playing against it. Warren Moon was winning awards. However, they won 1 playoff game in 5 seasons (made the playoffs every year but were 1-4) in part due to not being able to hold onto leads due to not being able to run the ball when needed.

You need some balance here. And I agree with Cossell...even on this board, you can tell how people aren't fully comfortable with Lamar throwing because it goes apeshit almost anytime we approach a 50-50 split in play calling that we should only be running the ball.

Yep. Any time they've tried to get away from the run-heavy approach, it hasn't looked good. I'd love to see the efficiency numbers of the drop back passing game where they don't run PA - in 2019 they absolutely murdered teams with 5 wide and 2020 the drop-back passing game was terrible. Even if Lamar passes at the same level next year, if they improve the line/receivers it should still be more productive just based on talent alone.

[Shas]

Greg Cosell :
I've always been a believer in that coaching staffs tell you about what they think about their QB by what they do. Baltimore does not want to throw the ball. So they're telling us at this point in Lamar's career what they think of him in the context of their passing game which by the way is very Basic. So again. People can draw their own conclusions. But the fact is they do not want to throw the ball unless they absolutely have to. So they are telling you what they think of both Lamar and the passing game. We do not have to interpret that Ross, they are telling you that.

Ross Tucker (Justin's brother from another mother): Right but can't you make the other argument that they think they are so good at running and they are so much better running, that they don't...

GC: - CUTS OFF RT-
They are so good at running and in their last two playoff losses they scored 12 points and 3 points. I had a great conversation with an offensive coach this past week on Monday, who basically said 'this is where they will be stuck until their pass game, and by extension Lamar Jackson, develops much more significantly.' So We'll see how that goes. Unfortunately we may have another pandemic offseason and the things I'm sure they want to work on with Lamar might be difficult to work on because it's very difficult to work on things through zoom. So we'll see where they go, but right now their pass game is pretty basic and they're telling you how they want to play. They are telling you they want to be one dimensional. Now is that one dimension great? It can be phenomenal! But I think if you spoke to most coaches, offensive coaches! in this league they would tell you it's very difficult to win big games in the playoffs being one dimensional on offense.

He needs to be developed much more in the passing game.

Part of this is a false narrative and part of this is an open question.

The false narrative is that they don't want to throw the ball. Seems to be more a case of John Harbaugh wanting to revolutionize the way modern offense is played with their running game. He has stated as much. I don't believe that statement is a ruse to hide his true feeling that Lamar can't throw the ball.

I was always taught that a good coach adapts to the player he has and puts them in a position to succeed, and seems like Harbaugh has done exactly that, to the effect of Lamar being unanimously named the most valuable player in the entire league.

But all people want to do is talk about what he supposedly can't do. The correct narrative is that they have chosen to run the ball.

The correct narrative needs to acknowledge that this choice has lead to the 32nd ranked offense in terms of passing yards. But they are also 7th in completion percentage and 16th in yards per attempt. They are 14th in percentage of first downs via passing. They are moderately efficient, and need to improve there, when they do throw the ball. Which is infrequently, not because they don't trust the QB but because they designed the offense to run the ball.

Now, the open question is: can you choose that path and ever expect to reach the AFC Championship game, or beyond?

The argument against it is that the playoffs means better teams and their style of play can't beat better teams.

That's the open question.

They are 30-7 in regular season games when they start this QB who they "don't want throwing the ball." And they are 1-3 in the playoffs. Is this trend doomed to continue? Or, can they continue to be a run-first team that improves the passing game, not necessarily to the point where they want it to be the feature of the offense, but maybe to the point where they can win with it when they need to.

Many here have made up their mind on this question, and their answer is no. I'm willing to wait and see what they do in the offseason, and what that results in next season.

[s.r.genovese]

Medicore pass plays are generally more efficient than even the best run plays so the question is why don't they think the pass game is at a level where they can be mediocre with increased volume? I think the answer is partly Lamar, partly receivers, partly o-line.

[BlackBeak]

Medicore pass plays are generally more efficient than even the best run plays so the question is why don't they think the pass game is at a level where they can be mediocre with increased volume? I think the answer is partly Lamar, partly receivers, partly o-line.

Well when I read a statement like “mediocre pass plays are better than the best run plays,” I just have to wonder what data leads you to that conclusion. What were the best run plays considered in the comparison. What is a mediocre pass play?

[veritas]

Part of this is a false narrative and part of this is an open question.

The false narrative is that they don't want to throw the ball. Seems to be more a case of John Harbaugh wanting to revolutionize the way modern offense is played with their running game. He has stated as much. I don't believe that statement is a ruse to hide his true feeling that Lamar can't throw the ball.

I was always taught that a good coach adapts to the player he has and puts them in a position to succeed, and seems like Harbaugh has done exactly that, to the effect of Lamar being unanimously named the most valuable player in the entire league.

But all people want to do is talk about what he supposedly can't do. The correct narrative is that they have chosen to run the ball.

The correct narrative needs to acknowledge that this choice has lead to the 32nd ranked offense in terms of passing yards. But they are also 7th in completion percentage and 16th in yards per attempt. They are 14th in percentage of first downs via passing. They are moderately efficient, and need to improve there, when they do throw the ball. Which is infrequently, not because they don't trust the QB but because they designed the offense to run the ball.

Now, the open question is: can you choose that path and ever expect to reach the AFC Championship game, or beyond?

The argument against it is that the playoffs means better teams and their style of play can't beat better teams.

That's the open question.

They are 30-7 in regular season games when they start this QB who they "don't want throwing the ball." And they are 1-3 in the playoffs. Is this trend doomed to continue? Or, can they continue to be a run-first team that improves the passing game, not necessarily to the point where they want it to be the feature of the offense, but maybe to the point where they can win with it when they need to.

Many here have made up their mind on this question, and their answer is no. I'm willing to wait and see what they do in the offseason, and what that results in next season.

We ended up last in passing yards and, again, couldn't score in the playoffs. The four teams still playing? 1,3,4 & 11 in passing. These guys are right. One dimensional offense can carry you during the regular season but not in the playoffs. Also, I would add, that one dimensional offense will get less and less effective during the season as well because teams see it over and over again and figure ways to neutralize it. Last year we were 6-0 against playoff teams with our new fangled run game. This year we were 3-4 (3-3 with Lamar playing). The playoff results were identical (12 points last year and 11.5 PPG this year). The common denominator is Roman.

[HotInHere]

Medicore pass plays are generally more efficient than even the best run plays so the question is why don't they think the pass game is at a level where they can be mediocre with increased volume? I think the answer is partly Lamar, partly receivers, partly o-line.

But bad pass plays result in zero yards, and there is more than a 30% chance of zero yards on a given pass play, even with the best passers. And really bad pass plays result in a substantial loss of yardage on a sack, or the other team getting the ball on the interception. Also, fumbles are twice as likely on pass plays as they are on run plays.

If we're going to compare, let's compare all of it.

[bmorebirds_24]

Playoffs baby.. you do know that Harbs is ranked 10th in PO win.. And No Arians, McDermot or La Fleur can pass him.. even if they win SB this year and next year.

Tomlin, Payton and Carroll could.. they have also been in the leauge longer than Harbs, and Tomlin and Payton is beginning to reach a QB problem.

How many of them playoff wins have been since the SB? How many playoff losses since the SB?
Just making the playoffs now is our main goal? The last 3 playoff appearances have been absolute duds outside the Titans game when Vrabel made some questionable decisions and basically handed Harbaugh the game.


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