M Brown again speaks our against our offense

[Iamjacks]

Let's think about this.

Not just all playoffs teams are ahead of you in the passing game but also.

Denver - lol
The Jets - lol
Patriots - Cam with his shredded arm threw the least TD passes of any starter I think (could be wrong but it was horribly low)
Jaguars - worst team in the NFL
All NFC East teams - Including
Cowboys - OK Understandable - but Dak probably beat the Ravens alone (just a guess but tell me it's crazy)
Giants - sigh
Eagles - lol lol lol!
and the WFT! Probably without any Alex Smith stats (just a guess)

The Ravens couldn't do better than any of these teams? Didn't Lamar throw the most TDs last year? Didn't he have upgraded WRs this year? What happened?

Hollywood is saying what Lamar can't.

The worst on the list is the Patriots since they ran a similar attack to the Ravens and Cam can't throw anymore. He had one good game (looked great throwing against the Seahawks) but his arm has been shredded and just is shot. Like Brees like Manning like Ben.

[BurnedToast]

Poor Greg, last year got blamed for having Lamar pass against stacked boxes in the playoffs and failing, this year realizing that approach failed, he tried the running game against stacked boxes and that failed, almost sounds like a no win situation. Hell even the win in Tenn was because of the defense, and Lamar breaking off a run, passing game still sucked. They way teams are playing the Ravens, passes to the outside boundaries should be like taking candy from a baby

Bro his passing concepts are actually horrible, It's not just people jeering.

[Waywatcher]

I’ve been on the other side of this argument - my point has always been that you need a CREDIBLE run threat to be an effective, winning offense and even to make passing better. The Ravens defense ironically demonstrated this. The held the Bills to 10 points of offense because they could spread out and effectively defend the pass. The same game exhibits what can go wrong if the balance is too far in favor of the run.

So yes, I’ll join the chorus in favor of better passing, this time.

But simply blaming the coaches and the scheme is too simplistic. Vrabel was basically saying over and over that Lamar only looks to the middle of the field. Several coaches have said it and the passing chart supports it. There had been talk about Lamar saying he needed to get better at passes outside the numbers. With rare exception that did not happen.

Football fans by nature always accuse professional football coaches of being the stupidest people on the planet for not doing whatever obvious thing comes to mind.

But maybe Roman has to develop a passing game that excludes a significant portion of the field because his QB is not proficient in using it, and just maybe this is how a passing offense looms when given those limitations.

You've cited examples ("rare exceptions") where Lamar has looked outside the numbers. Doesn't that disprove his inability to do so? If anything, his TENDENCIES may force his vision back towards the middle of the field but, like in other aspects of life, practice is supposed to reconfigure one's tendencies. Same thing with footwork, arm angles, practicing the plays themselves - it's all about converting bad habits into good muscle memory.

In my mind, that still points back to the coaching staff.

[Iamjacks]

I’ve been on the other side of this argument - my point has always been that you need a CREDIBLE run threat to be an effective, winning offense and even to make passing better. The Ravens defense ironically demonstrated this. The held the Bills to 10 points of offense because they could spread out and effectively defend the pass. The same game exhibits what can go wrong if the balance is too far in favor of the run.

So yes, I’ll join the chorus in favor of better passing, this time.

But simply blaming the coaches and the scheme is too simplistic. Vrabel was basically saying over and over that Lamar only looks to the middle of the field. Several coaches have said it and the passing chart supports it. There had been talk about Lamar saying he needed to get better at passes outside the numbers. With rare exception that did not happen.

Football fans by nature always accuse professional football coaches of being the stupidest people on the planet for not doing whatever obvious thing comes to mind.

But maybe Roman has to develop a passing game that excludes a significant portion of the field because his QB is not proficient in using it, and just maybe this is how a passing offense looms when given those limitations.

I've seen credible posters (that's directed at ME since I'm not an expert) say that he was a pocket passer in KY and he was fine outside the numbers. Is that wrong?

I attack Roman a lot, but I am not absolving Lamar of blame. It's clear his mechanics are out of whack and he's not set up to throw to some open guys, but he's not being coached heavily to throw so he's not constantly practicing being right throwing. He is constantly being coached to be right running. That mesh point requires a ton of work to get right.

Covid sure hit EVERYONE hard this year and it's clear it hit the Ravens ability to practice and prepare. But it hit EVERYONE so that's equalized.

I'm still going back to Steve Smith, the Ravens best WR ever IMHO, said his sleeping 6yo could run this offense and that Roman's time has expired in Baltimore. I hope he calls John.

[alien bird]

What exactly is one-dimensional, or not balanced? They aren't the same thing, or are they?

Here are the passing/rushing of each of the four remaining teams, plus the Ravens for comparison:

TBay: passes 63% of the time, and 76% of their total yards (6295) are from passing
GBay: passes 54% of the time, and 67% of their total yards (6417) are from passing
KCity: passes 61% of the time, and 74% of their total yards (6804) are from passing
Buff: passes 59% of the time, and 74% of their total yards (6509) are from passing
Balt: passes 42% of the time, and 49% of their total yards (5990) are from passing

Buccaneers
4th passing (4776), 28th rushing (1519)
76%/24%
626 attempts/369 rushes
63%/37%

Packers
11th passing (4299), 8th rushing (2118)
67%/33%
526 attempts/443 rushes
54%/46%

Chiefs
1st passing (5005), 16th rushing (1799)
74%/26%
630 attempts/403 rushes
61%/39%

Bills
3rd passing (4786), 20th rushing (1723)
74%/26%
595 attempts/411 rushes
59%/41%

Ravens
32nd passing (2919), 1st rushing (3071)
49%/51%
406 attempts/555 rushes
42%/58%

[The Excellector]

There is no time to practice throwing when 80% of your time is spent setting up new combination blocks. All practices are devoted to developing new ways to run the ball. If they devoted significant time to scheming WRs open then we would see that. We would see at least shots taken. We would see more passing. We don't see that. What we see in the games is what they practice which is constantly changing unorthodox run blocking plays which evolved week after week.

The Ravens simply relegated passing to an afterthought because that's what it is for Roman.

Remember that this Stat is a verdict on Greg Roman who is calling the games.

And people expect Lamar to put in this ungodly level of work and dedication to his mechanics in the off-season, and it will be reduced to what you described when camp and the season roll around, because the VAST majority of their practice time will be for running the ball.

Instead of being ‘reinforced’, like it should be.

[RevBarnes]

I like it that Marquise wants us to get better.

[LC_Ravens_87]

What exactly is one-dimensional, or not balanced? They aren't the same thing, or are they?

Good research. But there's an obvious bias in that sample...If you have the best skill players and the best QBs, you should pass more.

Buffalo was held to 10 points in the divisional round b/c they were too one dimensional, even with a top 3 WR this season. They put up a grand total of what 230 yards of offense which is dismal. One dimensional.

The other 3 teams compromise 2 of the best QBs to ever play and the best QB in the NFL right now. So yeah, if I had one of those guys I'd pass way more than I ran too.

And even with Aaron Rodgers, Mr. 2x MVP, 3x All Pro, he's in the conference championship b/c the team is more balanced this season with Aaron Jones at Rb.

So do they need more balance, of course. Do they need to be Kansas City 60-40 pass v run? Hell No.

[Iamjacks]

You've cited examples ("rare exceptions") where Lamar has looked outside the numbers. Doesn't that disprove his inability to do so? If anything, his TENDENCIES may force his vision back towards the middle of the field but, like in other aspects of life, practice is supposed to reconfigure one's tendencies. Same thing with footwork, arm angles, practicing the plays themselves - it's all about converting bad habits into good muscle memory.

In my mind, that still points back to the coaching staff.

Exactly. After three years of getting absolutely PWNED in the playoffs by different teams using different tactics but the exact same strategy - stop the run and make ROMAN call a passing game - people are now waking up to this fact. It's Roman (and by extension Harbaugh) not Lamar.

This does not absolve Lamar, or the bad snaps or whatever, but the "failure to execute" is a false image in a hall of mirrors leading to the failure of the coaching.

[The Excellector]

You've cited examples ("rare exceptions") where Lamar has looked outside the numbers. Doesn't that disprove his inability to do so? If anything, his TENDENCIES may force his vision back towards the middle of the field but, like in other aspects of life, practice is supposed to reconfigure one's tendencies. Same thing with footwork, arm angles, practicing the plays themselves - it's all about converting bad habits into good muscle memory.

In my mind, that still points back to the coaching staff.

I’m very inclined to agree. Roman has a history and pattern that precedes Lamar. He favors a specific type of QB, which is why Kaep replaced Alex Smith. This is who Roman is.

Right now, at the very least, it seems that Roman is well out of touch with some of his QB’s tendencies. For example, if you run a play, and you can see that when they stack the box, they can leave a WR open in the middle post-snap, because they know that once Lamar’s seen that look, he’ll throw to the flat, why do you keep running that same play, over and over and over, throughout a game. The defense knows it’s coming and is clearly using stacked looks to bait Lamar into lesser throws.

Now, one can look at Lamar and say he’s got to figure that out. That said, my question would be, how? With most of the practice time and film study devoted to the run and an OC who treats the passing offense like the worst stepchild ever, how is he supposed to learn that without the right guidance? That is what coaching is for, to help him see that tendency and help him learn how to break it.

But, to do that, you have to care enough about the passing offense. To do that, you need to spend time on it, and it’s an open secret that, in practice, they spend the vast majority of their time on their run concepts.

This is what I mean when I talk about dedication to his full growth as a passer. They clearly, very clearly, care FAR more about getting the absolute most out of his legs, than getting the most out of his passing as time goes on.

When Harbaugh is telling Lamar to ‘get back to who you are’, that lets you know what Harbaugh thinks he is and thinks he will always be.

[LC_Ravens_87]

And people expect Lamar to put in this ungodly level of work and dedication to his mechanics in the off-season, and it will be reduced to what you described when camp and the season roll around, because the VAST majority of their practice time will be for running the ball.

None of us have any idea what they do in practice and how much time is spent on x versus y. I agree with your premise and that of the post you quoted, however. But lamar isn't a passenger, here.

"ungodly level of work" Hyperbole, much. He's a professional athlete and he's about to ask for a very big raise. Millions of Millions of dollars. God forbid his employer expect him to improve.

[xiao_ke]

And people expect Lamar to put in this ungodly level of work and dedication to his mechanics in the off-season, and it will be reduced to what you described when camp and the season roll around, because the VAST majority of their practice time will be for running the ball.

Until Harbaugh is willing to get out of his comfort zone the Ravens are going to play it safe and stay a run heavy team.

The Ravens will continue to get into the playoffs with this formula, but until they can solely win games via the passing attack every season is going to end like the past few years.

It’s been three playoff games with Roman as the OC and in every single one the offense has been poor to mediocre.