M Brown again speaks our against our offense

[Cleo&Dilly]

i think harbs gets a pass on lamar. i think he like us was expecting lamar to improve in the offseason. but i dont know about GRO. what changed in his schemes? what evolved? people are complaining about the same things this year as they did last year. you cant blame injuries bc they still ran the ball very well. so what did GRO do last off season?

How would any rational human being expect that Lamar would improve in the passing game trading away one of the guys who Lamar used to catch passes in 2019 (Hurst) without replacing him, not using the guy who they got with the draft pick for him (Dobbins) for most of the season, using Boykin for two targets a game, bringing it Dez and not using him, etc. Trading Hurst was somewhat analogous to letting Boldin walk and expecting it to not impact Joe.

The Ravens need to do what the Bills did for Allen - get him a true #1 and USE HIM - for more than two targets a game.

[Shas]

How would any rational human being expect that Lamar would improve in the passing game trading away one of the guys who Lamar used to catch passes in 2019 (Hurst)

I thought it would be interesting to look at how snap counts compared this year to last....

Player	2019	2020	Difference
J.K. Dobbins	0	456	456
D. Duvernay	0	347	347
M. Brown	563	802	239
M. Andrews	457	597	140
D. Bryant	0	129	129
E. Tomlinson	0	123	123
M. Boykin	425	545	120
L. Wilson	0	75	75
P. Ricard	342	402	60
J. Proche	0	25	25
J. Scott	17	0	-17
G. Edwards	397	346	-51
J. Hill	187	73	-114
W. Snead	671	535	-136
C. Moore	159	14	-145
M. Ingram	504	160	-344
N. Boyle	769	380	-389
H. Hurst	457	0	-457
S. Roberts	552	0	-552
Total	5500	5009	-491

It's not common knowledge that Hurst and Andrews had identical snap counts in 2019. People talked about the loss of three tight end sets, but they very rarely ran that. The plan seemed to be to give Andrews more snaps in 2020 along with being able lean on Hollywood more.

His snap counts did go up, but not to the extent that they probably planned for. Part of that is they didn't have the ball as much. Total team snaps from players on this list decreased 9%.

Losing Boyle completely screwed up their typical reliance on TEs. Between Hurst and Boyle they lost 486 snaps. Tomlinson and Wilson only accounted for 200 of the difference. Increased workloads for Ricard and Andrews reclaimed another 200 snaps. The rest is explained by more three receiver sets (Dez) and overall fewer snaps overall. Clearly that was not an ideal Plan B in terms of production anyone would expect.

But Hurst only accounted for 30 catches in 2019, 10% of the team total. I think they simply had visions of Andrews making up for that, but his catch count actually went down by 6. The issue, I believe, is that everyone knows the ball is going to him or to Marquise, and that became too easy to defend.

To use a baseball analogy, it's like having great #3 and #4 hitters, but no one else in the line up to protect them, so they never see good pitches. Boyle went from 31 catches in 16 games to 17 in 9 games, so he was really only on the same pace in terms of receptions. Wilson had 1 catch and Tomlinson none.

People forget how many snaps Roberts had. That was replaced by Duvernay, along with increased use of Hollywood and Boykin. Roberts only accounted for 21 catches in 2019, which Duvernay alone matched on 18% fewer snaps. That's a positive.

Boykin's receptions were a mere 13 in '19 and 19 in '20. His low catch percentage of 59% fell slightly to 57% in '20. That needs to be fixed by him figuring things out and/or the scheme changing to help him, or sending him to the bench despite his blocking contributions to the running game.

Conclusion is they need additional, legitimate targets to take heat off their existing two, proven targets. There is still hope for Duvernay and maybe Boykin, to being part of that answer. But hope is not a strategy. Innovating the scheme to help these two, and the rest, can make that hope realistic. They at least need another legitimate receiving threat in the mix.

The obvious answer to me is a physical, big catch-radius receiver to take snaps away from some combination of Boykin, Bryant and possibly the stop-gap tight ends, while letting Boykin try to take snaps away from Duvernay and seeing what they have in Breeland and Wolfe, if not a rookie TE.

[Paintballguy]

I thought it would be interesting to look at how snap counts compared this year to last....

Player	2019	2020	Difference
J.K. Dobbins	0	456	456
D. Duvernay	0	347	347
M. Brown	563	802	239
M. Andrews	457	597	140
D. Bryant	0	129	129
E. Tomlinson	0	123	123
M. Boykin	425	545	120
L. Wilson	0	75	75
P. Ricard	342	402	60
J. Proche	0	25	25
J. Scott	17	0	-17
G. Edwards	397	346	-51
J. Hill	187	73	-114
W. Snead	671	535	-136
C. Moore	159	14	-145
M. Ingram	504	160	-344
N. Boyle	769	380	-389
H. Hurst	457	0	-457
S. Roberts	552	0	-552
Total	5500	5009	-491

It's not common knowledge that Hurst and Andrews had identical snap counts in 2019. People talked about the loss of three tight end sets, but they very rarely ran that. The plan seemed to be to give Andrews more snaps in 2020 along with being able lean on Hollywood more.

His snap counts did go up, but not to the extent that they probably planned for. Part of that is they didn't have the ball as much. Total team snaps from players on this list decreased 9%.

Losing Boyle completely screwed up their typical reliance on TEs. Between Hurst and Boyle they lost 486 snaps. Tomlinson and Wilson only accounted for 200 of the difference. Increased workloads for Ricard and Andrews reclaimed another 200 snaps. The rest is explained by more three receiver sets (Dez) and overall fewer snaps overall. Clearly that was not an ideal Plan B in terms of production anyone would expect.

But Hurst only accounted for 30 catches in 2019, 10% of the team total. I think they simply had visions of Andrews making up for that, but his catch count actually went down by 6. The issue, I believe, is that everyone knows the ball is going to him or to Marquise, and that became too easy to defend.

To use a baseball analogy, it's like having great #3 and #4 hitters, but no one else in the line up to protect them, so they never see good pitches. Boyle went from 31 catches in 16 games to 17 in 9 games, so he was really only on the same pace in terms of receptions. Wilson had 1 catch and Tomlinson none.

People forget how many snaps Roberts had. That was replaced by Duvernay, along with increased use of Hollywood and Boykin. Roberts only accounted for 21 catches in 2019, which Duvernay alone matched on 18% fewer snaps. That's a positive.

Boykin's receptions were a mere 13 in '19 and 19 in '20. His low catch percentage of 59% fell slightly to 57% in '20. That needs to be fixed by him figuring things out and/or the scheme changing to help him, or sending him to the bench despite his blocking contributions to the running game.

Conclusion is they need additional, legitimate targets to take heat off their existing two, proven targets. There is still hope for Duvernay and maybe Boykin, to being part of that answer. But hope is not a strategy. Innovating the scheme to help these two, and the rest, can make that hope realistic. They at least need another legitimate receiving threat in the mix.

The obvious answer to me is a physical, big catch-radius receiver to take snaps away from some combination of Boykin, Bryant and possibly the stop-gap tight ends, while letting Boykin try to take snaps away from Duvernay and seeing what they have in Breeland and Wolfe, if not a rookie TE.

There's no more perfect fit than Allen Robinson. He's played with absolute trash QB's and crushes it every year.

[xiao_ke]

There's no more perfect fit than Allen Robinson. He's played with absolute trash QB's and crushes it every year.

And Robinson is doing it while being the sole focus of opposing secondaries in Chicago and he still got 100 catches this year. Robinson, Hollywood and Andrews is a core of pass catchers that will cause match-up problems.

[Paintballguy]

And Robinson is doing it while being the sole focus of opposing secondaries in Chicago and he still got 100 catches this year. Robinson, Hollywood and Andrews is a core of pass catchers that will cause match-up problems.

And he couldn't be a better fit personality wise IMO. I don't care how much he wants, pay the man. We need to stop cheaping out on offense and pay up for once.

[NOLARavenFAN]

The only problem I have with bringing in players from bad losing teams is that they performed with with low expectations....... It's hard to choke when you expected to lose. meanwhile bring a person like that into the Ravens and they're expected to make plays in the clutch. It doesn't always translate. Someone like Steph Diggs wasn't playing on a great team but they weren't terribly either..

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

[xiao_ke]

And go to two TEs and one gets IRed quickly.

I'm good with the Hayden Hurst trade for the draft pick that became Dobbins, but with Roman's defenses being more TE dependent, I'm surprised the Ravens didn't bring in a Hurst replacement.

[Iamjacks]

I'm good with the Hayden Hurst trade for the draft pick that became Dobbins, but with Roman's defenses being more TE dependent, I'm surprised the Ravens didn't bring in a Hurst replacement.

Yeah at least a solid backup because what if Boyle got injured? Which is what happened and no plan B.

I also thought they made a big mistake in not signing Wilson as a backup tackle and let him go to the Colts.

[xiao_ke]

Yeah at least a solid backup because what if Boyle got injured? Which is what happened and no plan B.

I also thought they made a big mistake in not signing Wilson as a backup tackle and let him go to the Colts.

Until the Ravens offense evolves into something different, there isn't a good reason to not carry 3 TE's on the 53 man roster. Otherwise they end up scrambling like they did this year when Boyle went down.

[The Excellector]

The only problem I have with bringing in players from bad losing teams is that they performed with with low expectations....... It's hard to choke when you expected to lose. meanwhile bring a person like that into the Ravens and they're expected to make plays in the clutch. It doesn't always translate. Someone like Steph Diggs wasn't playing on a great team but they weren't terribly either..

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

Lee Evans is a very good example of this. It’s one thing to catch bombs from JP Losman on a team with no expectations. It’s another to be expected to catch the game winning TD pass at Gillette to send the team to the Super Bowl.