M Brown again speaks our against our offense

**alien bird** · 01-19-2021, 04:51 PM

Originally Posted by TTRaven

Targeting Andrews isn't the problem. The problem is forcing the ball to Andrews. The pick 6 is a perfect example. As soon as the ball was snapped Lamar locked onto Andrews in triple coverage. Snead was wide open for an easy TD. And it wasn't just that play where Lamar missed a wide open guy. He was missing them all night.

I'm not so sure Snead was as open as you seem to think. Yes, he was more open than Andrews (who had a man draped on him), but the guy who picked off LJackson was on Snead and broke off his coverage when Jackson locked in on Andrews. So your point is well-taken (forcing to Andrews), but the guy who was really open on that play was Boykin headed to the right corner. A well-placed ball to the sideline and no one else is going to catch that except Boykin. So Jackson had two better options than the one he chose and actually had time to work through his progressions on that play, as the offensive line created a nice pocket for once.

Check out the position of the Ravens' receivers at the 0:47 mark here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DTmW0T_ppA

**seraph** · 01-19-2021, 05:06 PM

Originally Posted by alien bird

I'm not so sure Snead was as open as you seem to think. Yes, he was more open than Andrews (who had a man draped on him), but the guy who picked off LJackson was on Snead and broke off his coverage when Jackson locked in on Andrews. So your point is well-taken (forcing to Andrews), but the guy who was really open on that play was Boykin headed to the right corner. A well-placed ball to the sideline and no one else is going to catch that except Boykin. So Jackson had two better options than the one he chose and actually had time to work through his progressions on that play, as the offensive line created a nice pocket for once.

Check out the position of the Ravens' receivers at the 0:47 mark here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DTmW0T_ppA

Snead was breaking on a pivot. An advanced read would be to anticipate Snead coming off of his break. There's no excuses when he had a clean pocket to throw from.

**Shas** · 01-19-2021, 05:08 PM

Originally Posted by The Excellector

While I get your overall point Shaslers and you’ve always been a guy who rails against the knee jerk reaction, I would say that this is not an overreaction to one game. This is a reaction to three playoff appearances of everything going wrong at once, with one victory sprinkled in. That is a pattern and a problem.

I am not arguing that the assertion of passing-game issues is a knee jerk reaction.

I am arguing that many portrayals of the severity of these issues, and many of the suggested solutions are a knee jerk reactions that don't fairly look at the big picture.

For instance, citing the 32nd ranked passing offense, while problematic, isn't as bad as it sounds when taken in context.

Solutions like firing Harbaugh or Roman or even walking away from Lamar because we can never win with them is an overreaction.

I would even argue that the coaching issues we've seen in these games pale in comparison to the comedy of errors the players put on display Saturday night.

Put more strongly, the idea the team lost Saturday because of Greg Roman is a joke.

Did they see Lamar's decision making? Did they see him leaving the game after botching a throw that would have tied the score at 10? Did they see the blocking up front? The snaps from center? Did they see the stupid penalties? Did they see the F- special teams performance? Did they see the defense that gave up one touchdown to one of the hottest offenses in the NFL?

How can you see all that and come up with a coach firing as your solution?

Fans don't like to admit when players don't get the job done, especially in big games. But they love to talk about coaching blunders in these situations.

Roman--and I think Culley-- certainly have a role in these outcomes. And Harbaugh has to answer why his team has pressed and bungled two divisional playoff appearances in a row (even though they are only one of three out of 32 NLF teams to make appearances in consecutive divisional playoff rounds, with Green Bay and KC).

But I don't think it's wise to throw out the run-heavy scheme, or the men who built it, in order to improve it.

There is 10x more evidence to say that this approach can get the team to where it wants to go than there is evidence saying it dooms them from ever getting there.

**alien bird** · 01-19-2021, 05:11 PM

Originally Posted by seraph

Snead was breaking on a pivot. An advanced read would be to anticipate Snead coming off of his break. There's no excuses when he had a clean pocket to throw from.

Oh, I'm not arguing that he wasn't a better option than Andrews. I think "wide open" is a little optimistic, and I think Boykin was wide open (for NFL defenses, at least). Throwing to either Snead or Boykin would have ended up in a score for the Ravens.

Throwing to Andrews also ended up in a score, though . . . .

**WrongBaldy** · 01-19-2021, 06:27 PM

Originally Posted by Shas

Right.

And now I think they may decide the focus needs to be allowing their best target to run more than two routes, running routes designed to get guys open, adding a talented receiver who can "create his own shot" and/or expand the catch radius, find balance in the run/pass. I think they have realized the need was more than getting Lamar to make better throws.

Damn that’s a lot of work

**Shas** · 01-19-2021, 06:55 PM

Originally Posted by WrongBaldy

Damn that’s a lot of work

Not as much work as nearly completely overhauling the front seven on defense in one year in order to be able to stop a running back who pretty much no one in the rest of the league is able to stop.

Now we're talking about adding maybe one pass catcher and one lineman on offense, and revamping a passing scheme that resembles no more than what most other NFL teams are doing. All they need is a top-twenty passing game. That doesn't sound like a heavy lift to me.

If I'm Bisciotti, that's the discussion we're having next month down in Florida. I want answers as to why our passing game is not at least mediocre, and what we are going to do to achieve mediocrity when it comes to throwing the ball.
'
The hard part will be making it mesh with what Roman has already built. Can they elevate it without tearing apart the best running game in the NFL?

Assuming EDC can address the personnel part, then it's on Harbaugh to sort out in terms of having the right staff to work with Roman, getting Roman to make changes/listen, and being able to run it on-demand, so teams cannot over-commit to stopping the run.

Seems crystal clear and doable, if Harbaugh has the people skills to set the vision.

The only reason to dump Roman is if he refuses to accept that vision. I don't think the problem has been Roman resisting it. I think the problem has been that it, the vision, has not existed.

**sflegend89** · 01-19-2021, 06:59 PM

100% correct, Ravens offense is never going to legitimately compete for a SB with such an underdeveloped passing game. Lamar has great arm talent, this is about how we build rosters and approach the offense

Top 3 passing teams are all in the conference championship. EDC needs to get this passing game together and stop bullshitting with mid-late round WR's that they can't develop, get another talented WR in FA and go to work on making this right

Nobody is asking them to throw the ball 50 times a game, just be balanced, it's not rocket science

**WrongBaldy** · 01-19-2021, 07:21 PM

Originally Posted by Shas

Not as much work as nearly completely overhauling the front seven on defense in one year in order to be able to stop a running back who pretty much no one in the rest of the league is able to stop.

Now we're talking about adding maybe one pass catcher and one lineman on offense, and revamping a passing scheme that resembles no more than what most other NFL teams are doing. All they need is a top-twenty passing game. That doesn't sound like a heavy lift to me.

If I'm Bisciotti, that's the discussion we're having next month down in Florida. I want answers as to why our passing game is not at least mediocre, and what we are going to do to achieve mediocrity when it comes to throwing the ball.
'
The hard part will be making it mesh with what Roman has already built. Can they elevate it without tearing apart the best running game in the NFL?

Assuming EDC can address the personnel part, then it's on Harbaugh to sort out in terms of having the right staff to work with Roman, getting Roman to make changes/listen, and being able to run it on-demand, so teams cannot over-commit to stopping the run.

Seems crystal clear and doable, if Harbaugh has the people skills to set the vision.

The only reason to dump Roman is if he refuses to accept that vision. I don't think the problem has been Roman resisting it. I think the problem has been that it, the vision, has not existed.

So asking Roman and harbs to redo the passing game and then mesh it with the running scheme and then get gro to call more pass plays is not hard?
Seems like you have lots off faith in these two .

Weird these guys need a new “vision” wonder why harbs didn’t think of this vision before. I mean clearly he knew he couldn’t win super bowl with worst passing game right?

**NOLARavenFAN** · 01-19-2021, 08:42 PM

Originally Posted by alien bird

I'm not so sure Snead was as open as you seem to think. Yes, he was more open than Andrews (who had a man draped on him), but the guy who picked off LJackson was on Snead and broke off his coverage when Jackson locked in on Andrews. So your point is well-taken (forcing to Andrews), but the guy who was really open on that play was Boykin headed to the right corner. A well-placed ball to the sideline and no one else is going to catch that except Boykin. So Jackson had two better options than the one he chose and actually had time to work through his progressions on that play, as the offensive line created a nice pocket for once.

Check out the position of the Ravens' receivers at the 0:47 mark here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DTmW0T_ppA

Snead looked wide open......

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**Shas** · 01-19-2021, 09:14 PM

Originally Posted by WrongBaldy

Weird these guys need a new “vision” wonder why harbs didn’t think of this vision before. I mean clearly he knew he couldn’t win super bowl with worst passing game right?

I can't answer why he could not foresee inadequacies. It's not like they didn't want to improve, we can be sure of that. I think they banked on Andrews continuing to dominate, Boyle to contribute, Hollywood to heal and become a star receiver and Boykin to improve from his rookie campaign. Only Hollywood came through, although hardly to a star level. And they didn't foresee losing the LT they just gave millions to.

That's on them to own. And now figure out how to do better.

**sflegend89** · 01-19-2021, 09:45 PM

Originally Posted by WrongBaldy

So asking Roman and harbs to redo the passing game and then mesh it with the running scheme and then get gro to call more pass plays is not hard?
Seems like you have lots off faith in these two .

Weird these guys need a new “vision” wonder why harbs didn’t think of this vision before. I mean clearly he knew he couldn’t win super bowl with worst passing game right?

Harbs, Tomlin, Pete Carroll.... all guys that are just there to be the team's camp counselor. Make sure every body's playing nice, listening to their coaches, and working hard.

All at the mercy of the coordinators in a major way. I honestly have a hard time blaming Harbs at this point for not understanding that he wasn't going to go far with a one-dimensional offense, that's a Roman thing for us. That was his responsibility to understand.

That's why Roman really shouldn't be back, he should've known that the 2018/2019 playoff stacked box boogeyman would be back yet again... but hey, here we are

**seraph** · 01-19-2021, 10:33 PM

Originally Posted by Shas

I can't answer why he could not foresee inadequacies. It's not like they didn't want to improve, we can be sure of that. I think they banked on Andrews continuing to dominate, Boyle to contribute, Hollywood to heal and become a star receiver and Boykin to improve from his rookie campaign. Only Hollywood came through, although hardly to a star level. And they didn't foresee losing the LT they just gave millions to.

That's on them to own. And now figure out how to do better.

They did draft players for the offense last offseason and talked about building their own scheme. Also Lamar talked about studying last offseason although COVID got in the way of working with his private coach. Just disappointing to see how the passing scheme turned out with Lamar regressing. Everyone from DeCosta, Harbaugh, Roman, Lamar were all talk about evolving.