The Ceiling

**2bynight** · 01-18-2021, 02:51 PM

Originally Posted by beavery

I'm going to probably regurgitate lots of stuff in other threads....I don't know if Lamar will ever win the big game, but I would at least like to give him enough weapons and protection before I say the Ravens have reached a ceiling with his play. He is a great kid, the most dynamic runner since Gale Sayers, and super competitive; however, he sometimes gets in his own way by trying to do much on his own.
hit.

I have to laugh - you're comparing him to a running back - which of course is a true comparison given his unique athletic abilities in regards to just the run aspect.

I agree with your other points. Time to give the kid some true weapons. Bolster the o-line to protect him instead of him running for his life on plays. Get a center who can snap properly. For heavens sake draft or pay a true #1 WR! He needs to be able to consistently punish those defenses that load the box and plug up run lanes with a WR that can not only get open at short to long depths but can fight for and catch the ball when in traffic. Then again, that requires a coaching staff that supports and plans for passing...

**HotInHere** · 01-18-2021, 03:01 PM

Originally Posted by beavery

... however, without Lewis and Reed he hasn't done much. In fact but for Lamar he wouldn't have made the post season the last three years.

This is constantly regurgitated, and it's ridiculous. Go ahead and list the coaches who have done a lot without great players. Seriously, I'm asking the question. Name even one coach who has been a great coach who hasn't had great players.

Saying a coach only succeeds because he has great players is true of every coached who has ever succeeded, ever.

There are a lot of coaches who have had great players and never done a damn thing with them. (Jason Garrett leaps immediately to mind at the top of a long, long list.) John Harbaugh is not on that list though.

**srobert96** · 01-18-2021, 03:19 PM

Originally Posted by HotInHere

This is constantly regurgitated, and it's ridiculous. Go ahead and list the coaches who have done a lot without great players. Seriously, I'm asking the question. Name even one coach who has been a great coach who hasn't had great players.

Saying a coach only succeeds because he has great players is true of every coached who has ever succeeded, ever.

There are a lot of coaches who have had great players and never done a damn thing with them. (Jason Garrett leaps immediately to mind at the top of a long, long list.) John Harbaugh is not on that list though.

Right now Bill B is 0-1 in making the playoffs without Brady and Brady is going to NFC championship game.

**beavery** · 01-18-2021, 04:01 PM

Originally Posted by HotInHere

This is constantly regurgitated, and it's ridiculous. Go ahead and list the coaches who have done a lot without great players. Seriously, I'm asking the question. Name even one coach who has been a great coach who hasn't had great players.

Saying a coach only succeeds because he has great players is true of every coached who has ever succeeded, ever.

There are a lot of coaches who have had great players and never done a damn thing with them. (Jason Garrett leaps immediately to mind at the top of a long, long list.) John Harbaugh is not on that list though.

You are absolutely right..... but Lewis and Reed weren't great players at the end of the career. By their leadership and example they were instrumental in getting us to the Super bowl. I suggest that victory was more about them and a red hot Joe Flacco then it was the ability of the coaching staff. I guess what I'm trying to say when they left and after the purge or whatever you want to call it, what have Harbaugh and his staff done to believe they can get back to the super bowl and get beyond where we are at now. From the outside looking in it appears Harbaugh made himself the primary voice in the locker room. How has that worked? Do we look like a well coached team more Sundays than not? We don't play complete games, in game adjustments are average at best, clock management is questionable, personnel decisions seem based on whether someone can play special teams and how often has the team been hurt because of Harbaugh doghouse or sense of loyalty to non producing players and coaches. I think Harbaugh is a decent coach, as I said another team would grab him up in a minute but there is nothing over the last 8 years to believe he can take as farther than we have already got. Last year we had 11 pro-bowlers, this year we had 7. He has some talent but we continue to watch other teams play the last 2 Sunday's of the season rather than being on the field competing for an AFC or NFL championship. I don't think Harbaugh and his football ideology will get us back to Super bowl.

**The Excellector** · 01-18-2021, 09:28 PM

Originally Posted by CharlotteRaven

Receivers open on EVERY play.

When people post footage here, the few times we have open guys, it looks more glaring, because we don't have that often and we don't throw often. You can put on tape of Mahomes missing open guys, but it doesn't matter as much, because far more often than here, he'll have guys open on the next play. When you only throw it twenty times, every little mistake is magnified. It's also harder for your QB to get into a rhythm often times.

So, while I feel that Lamar has a lot to work on, I don't think this coaching staff or offense as a whole is doing him any favors, toward improving upon those issues.

**The Excellector** · 01-18-2021, 09:30 PM

Originally Posted by LC_Ravens_87

Is Bill Belichick such a coach? He's certainly great at what he does, but I'd argue that his style had nothing to do with Tom Brady's development. Instead, he lucked his way into the hardest working, most obsessed QB of all time.

Andy Reid is certainly a great offensive coach, one of the greatest of all time. Yet, he couldn't get past the divisional round with Alex Smith. Was he holding Alex Smith back? Or did his "coaching style" improve all the sudden when Mahomes took over?

That depends, if Brady is drafted by the Chargers and is brought up in Cam Cameron's Coryell based offense, does he become Brady?

**LC_Ravens_87** · 01-18-2021, 10:09 PM

Originally Posted by The Excellector

That depends, if Brady is drafted by the Chargers and is brought up in Cam Cameron's Coryell based offense, does he become Brady?

That's the best you have? The same Cam cameron who do developed phillip rivers?!

**The Excellector** · 01-18-2021, 10:18 PM

Originally Posted by LC_Ravens_87

That's the best you have? The same Cam cameron who do developed phillip rivers?!

It was just an example. Philip Rivers was far better suited for that offense. Much like Brees. Brady has never been a great fit for that offense. He was a fit for the offense that the Patriots were running and planned to run with Bledsoe.

**LC_Ravens_87** · 01-18-2021, 10:34 PM

Originally Posted by The Excellector

It was just an example. Philip Rivers was far better suited for that offense. Much like Brees. Brady has never been a great fit for that offense. He was a fit for the offense that the Patriots were running and planned to run with Bledsoe.

All I'll say is Flacco's 2 best regular seasons were 2010 under Cam and 2014 under Kubes. That was his ceiling. Except for his once in a lifetime heater in 2012.

They made 3 conf champs with guy and could have been 4 if they didn't have street guys playing cb in 2014 or 5 if he didn't get hurt in 2010.

Harbaugh didn't hold Flacco back at all. He got everything he could out of him. Including after his injury in 2015