Last three seasons have been similar to 2005-2007.

**Purple_Bird** · 11-23-2020, 07:40 AM

The past three seasons to me have felt very reminiscent of the 2005-2007 seasons. There are definitely some differences, but the general tone is kind of the same. The end result was that Billick got canned in 2007, which I am comparing to 2020.

I’m not saying Harbaugh should/shouldn’t, just that the tone of the team is similar.

Here is my take:

1) 2005 a promising Ravens team misses the playoffs after a late season drop off. The Boller project seems inconsistent at best, a bust if being honest. A 21-point 4th quater collapse at home against the Bengals, largely attributable to a drunk Chris McCallister, casts a dark pall over the team with calls for Billick’s firing because of his supposed “star system”.
I liken this to 2018 in that Flacco was flaming out and it seemed all but certain Harbaugh would be gone at season’s end. The difference between 2005 and 2018 is that Harbaugh saved himself in that same season, as well as his job. Billick saved himself the next year in 2006. Both were done with a change in qb and veteran offensive leadership.

2) 2006 = 2019. In this case I say McNair = Ingram (vet offensive leadership) + Lamar (new qb replacing former 1st round team draft pick)

In both seasons the franchise ended with setting a franchise best (up to that time) record; in both seasons they also thudded hard in the playoffs.

In both seasons, they were kicking behind every game, but also in the last game of both seasons they had a final regular season game (2006 Bills and I forgot who is was in 2019) where the “veteran offensive leadership” became a bit concerning. If you remember, in 2006 McNair looked shaky in that Bills game. Something was “off”. In 2019, stud vet RB Ingram gets injured. His availability for the playoff game was in question.

2) 2007 = 2020
Both teams started out winning some games, but something was “off”, very shaky wins and seemed to get injured and worse as the season wore on. The team got worse and worse as time progressed.

In 2007 McNair gets banged up early on and in 2020 Ingram looks like 2019 was his real “last season”. The Bills game in 2007 was the real beginning of the end for that team, and in 2020 there are a number of games that can be called the same. In 2007 an obviously declining Ravens team “got up” for a home game against the undefeated Patriots, and in 2020 we may have that same affect on Thanksgiving against Pittsburgh. Even so, I see 2020 as a continual slide downward.

Seems that in both cases, the coaches got “one more shot” and pulled a rabbit out of their hat for one season (2006, 2019), but ultimately that just delayed the inevitable for a few seasons.

Anyhow just my thoughts.

**EdReed4HOF** · 11-23-2020, 08:03 AM

Not even close. The 2005 and 2007 teams went 6-10 and 5-11 respectively. As long as the Ravens are staying competitive and not tanking like they did in 2015, Harbaugh isn't going anywhere. He has a much longer leash than Brian Billick had. Not saying I like it or agree with it, but that's just the reality.

**GOTA** · 11-23-2020, 08:04 AM

The big difference is the QB. No one saw McNair as a long term solution. He was a short term stop gap. You don't build a team around a QB not expected to be there for very long.

Lamar Jackson is expected to be the QB for the next decade. Everything is going to schemed and players will be drafted and free agents signed to build around Lamar Jackson.

Mark Ingram received $6.5 million guaranteed on a 3 year deal. He's not a major piece and will be easy to move on from next year. That's the same with most of the vets on this team. Even Marcus Peters deal which was expensive is designed in a way to cut him next year if required.

It's very different to have a long term QB and the flexibility to build around him that what Billick had those 3 years which was a bunch of expense veterans on defense and very little long stability on offense. Billick would have been very happy to be in this situation over the mix and match he was in from 2002 on. Harbaugh and DeCosta can retool around Lamar Jackson next season if they want to

**camdenyard** · 11-23-2020, 08:41 AM

You can make comparisons between 2006 and 2019, I get that. Our two best regular seasons and kicked in the teeth in the Divisional at home. But that 2007 team was simply bad. The 2020 is much better team.

**I Touchdown There** · 11-23-2020, 09:06 AM

2007 was an abyss. Even 2015 couldn't compare. Let's see how the next month plays out, but 2007 was prettyyyyyy shitty

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**Josepho** · 11-23-2020, 10:27 AM

I don't REALLY know which thread to post this in, but people are definitely starting to overreact. And this is coming from someone who doesn't exactly consider himself optimistic.

We've lost 3 one possession games, two of which we were one play away from winning against great teams, while being fucked by injury. Shit like this evens out in the future.

And no, that's not just an "excuse". You obviously don't sign Ronnie Stanley to an 100mil contract if you expect DJ Fluker to come in and do the job remotely as well as him. He's an extremely important part of this offence. Likewise with BWill and Calais.

This season is very likely lost in terms of Superbowl aspirations, but going 5-0 towards the end of the season is probably the most likely outcome.

That being said, there are issues with the team that need to be addressed this offseason. Lots of dumb mistakes and penalties on both sides of the ball. DeCosta needs to add a third TE to the offence, fix up the interior of the line, look at adding another vet at ILB and aggressively jump on the next big name WR à la Diggs (looking at you, Allen Robinson). I'm not adamant about this, but I actually wouldn't be upset if we fired Harbaugh for Bienemy either.

I still think this team is set up quite well for the future though.

**JimZipCode** · 11-23-2020, 11:34 AM

Originally Posted by Josepho

people are definitely starting to overreact. And this is coming from someone who doesn't exactly consider himself optimistic.

We've lost 3 one possession games, two of which we were one play away from winning against great teams, while being fucked by injury. Shit like this evens out in the future.

Fair. I said this in another thread; the Ravens have lost:

to the SB champs in a game that was within one score in the 4th.
to a "perfect" team with the league's best defense, in a one-score game despite losing their All-Pro LT and turning the ball over 4 times.
on the road during a monsoon in another one-score game with their C unable to snap the ball.
in OT against a playoff team while playing without most of their D-line.

This isn't a Jets or Jacksonville situation.

I still don't fucking like it, though.

Originally Posted by Josepho

I still think this team is set up quite well for the future though.

That looks true, cap-wise and roster-wise. But for it to come thru, Lamar has to get back to playing cleanly & decisively. And Roman - Culley - Urban have to get their shit together.

**organizedchaos21** · 11-23-2020, 02:44 PM

Originally Posted by Purple_Bird

....

1) 2005 a promising Ravens team misses the playoffs after a late season drop off. The Boller project seems inconsistent at best, a bust if being honest. A 21-point 4th quater collapse at home against the Bengals...

This game was played in 2004: https://www.pro-football-reference.c...0412050rav.htm

Both Bengals games in 2005 were blowouts, and the 2005 team never sniffed the playoffs. Game 1: https://www.pro-football-reference.c...0511060rav.htm . Game 2: https://www.pro-football-reference.c...0511270cin.htm

**organizedchaos21** · 11-23-2020, 02:49 PM

Originally Posted by I Touchdown There

2007 was an abyss. Even 2015 couldn't compare. Let's see how the next month plays out, but 2007 was prettyyyyyy shitty

I have to disagree with this. In 2007, a 4-3 Ravens team traveled to PIT on MNF to take on a 5-2 Steelers team with a chance to force a three-way tie for first place (CLE was also 5-3). They were blown off the field (had no CBs IIRC), but there was still some hope 9 weeks into the season.

In 2015, the season basically ended 3 weeks in after they started 0-3. They stole a win in PIT on TNF, but then lost 3 in a row. At 1-6, they were all but eliminated already. Flacco goes down in week 11, and we get the joy of watching Matt Schaub throw TDs to the other team, and Jimmy Clausen in mustard yellow (Mallett was actually ok!).

**The Excellector** · 11-23-2020, 02:50 PM

Originally Posted by I Touchdown There

2007 was an abyss.

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Getting prepared to watch the Ravens play Indianapolis and Pittsburgh, knowing that they would get railroaded and there was nothing that could be done about it.

**camdenyard** · 11-23-2020, 02:54 PM

Originally Posted by organizedchaos21

This game was played in 2004: https://www.pro-football-reference.c...0412050rav.htm

I was so pissed off leaving the stadium after that fiasco. I remember kicking cans all the way down the concourse yelling "F$%#!" each time. And I wasn't alone.

**I Touchdown There** · 11-23-2020, 02:55 PM

Originally Posted by organizedchaos21

I have to disagree with this. In 2007, a 4-3 Ravens team traveled to PIT on MNF to take on a 5-2 Steelers team with a chance to force a three-way tie for first place (CLE was also 5-3). They were blown off the field (had no CBs IIRC), but there was still some hope 9 weeks into the season.

In 2015, the season basically ended 3 weeks in after they started 0-3. They stole a win in PIT on TNF, but then lost 3 in a row. At 1-6, they were all but eliminated already. Flacco goes down in week 11, and we get the joy of watching Matt Schaub throw TDs to the other team, and Jimmy Clausen in mustard yellow (Mallett was actually ok!).

Totally forgot about the bad start in 2015

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