Is this Trump's end game?

**NCRAVEN** · 11-11-2020, 05:16 PM

Originally Posted by ddr_jr

They are now recounting by hand the georgia votes. If they numbers were switched, no way they would do this. They would just say kick rocks. It's happening because Republicans run elections in that state.

How is a hand recount done. Person A counts 4038 ballots and types the number in the system? Are there members of each party there like it was previously? I feel sorry for those poll workers..hopefully they get overtime.

If Biden still has the lead afterwards, then will it finally be believed?

Then would you support Trump requesting yet another recount after certification? If he requests one, it will be clear he's using stall tactics after a manual recount.

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Georgia is in recount territory I believe but another reason is votes were counted without Republican observers present. If the shoe was on the other foot I would absolutely be saying do a recount.

**The Excellector** · 11-11-2020, 05:22 PM

Originally Posted by NCRAVEN

Georgia is in recount territory I believe but another reason is votes were counted without Republican observers present. If the shoe was on the other foot I would absolutely be saying do a recount.

Where were votes counted without Republicans present? In PA, for example, it was revealed in front of a judge that Republican observers were present?

**NCRAVEN** · 11-11-2020, 05:31 PM

Originally Posted by The Excellector

Where were votes counted without Republicans present? In PA, for example, it was revealed in front of a judge that Republican observers were present?

In GA they said they were stopping counting because the water main break. The Republicans claim they went home and that the counters stayed and counted. I haven’t seen that claimed refuted yet.

In PA they went to the state Supreme Court to not allow certain observers during the counting. I believe the claim is not that people weren’t there but that they were kept far away as they couldn’t tell what was going on.

**FloridaBasedFan** · 11-11-2020, 09:49 PM

Originally Posted by NCRAVEN

That’s not what’s its saying. It’s talking about votes reported to Trump then switched to Biden or taken away and not given to Trump.

It could be honest mistakes, but what’s concerning is it’s on a large scale and In multiple states, assuming it’s true.

If these votes were in fact taken away, mistakenly or not then they need to be corrected if they havent been already. If the people voted Trump in then its 4 more years of Trump. Plain and simple. Im not a fan at all, he is not a traditional conservative by any stretch, he is caustic as hell, but if he wins the vote he is the boss.

I am souring more and more on the electoral college in its present form. It allows a substantial minority an overabundance of power IMO. I dont believe the rural, less densely populated areas should be overlooked but when you have 3, 4, 5 million vote majorities either losing or winning by a hair that says to me that the majority is being vastly under represented. I may not like many of the ideas that majority embraces but still, that is a vast majority.

**FloridaBasedFan** · 11-11-2020, 10:06 PM

Originally Posted by NCRAVEN

Admit it. You don’t want fraud. You will cling to anything that tells you there’s no fraud.

Of course I dont want fraud. Who wants a fraudulent election? If I want that I can move to a 3rd world country. Do I think there is fraud in this election? Probably to some degree. It would be almost impossible to have 150 million of anything without some problems. Do I think there is the degree of fraud that the right claims in this election. No, I dont. Especially when everything Ive seen indicates its not true. Im not talking about pundit claims, Im talking about cases being dismissed in court due to lack of evidence.

If your saying I dont want fraud because it means that Biden gets elected. Well, this election its Biden, I prefer Biden as a candidate but i still dont want him elected via fraud. If that were the case what happens next time when a candidate I really like loses due to fraud?

Why is it so hard to believe that I dont like Trump simply because I see him as a failure as a leader, failing in the character department, and dont think he really has accomplished much while undermining the security of our nation to ensure the top 1% benefit. I simply want a change. Hopefully, Biden will be much like Grover Cleveland who realized that the job was bigger than any party and grew into the job. I simply want a change. Im counting on the American people to hold any intiatives in check. I dont think Biden will try and find work-arounds of every law he disagrees with and while Im sure he will spin I dont think he will come close to lying the way the current president does.

**FloridaBasedFan** · 11-11-2020, 10:21 PM

Originally Posted by NCRAVEN

In GA they said they were stopping counting because the water main break. The Republicans claim they went home and that the counters stayed and counted. I haven’t seen that claimed refuted yet.

In PA they went to the state Supreme Court to not allow certain observers during the counting. I believe the claim is not that people weren’t there but that they were kept far away as they couldn’t tell what was going on.

I dont know about the GA incident. I do know in PA the parties had agreed upon a distance of 10 feet. Once the counting started the GOP went to court saying no oversight was allowed. They said they did not have access. Once in court those claims turned out to be bold faced lies. It turned out they wanted to get closer. The state agreed to allow it, moving them from 10 feet to 6 feet away. Of course the President is claiming they were kept so far away the observers "had to use binoculars to see what was going on". Really? Really? The parties also have people monitoring the videos that cover every square inch of the storage and counting areas. That video is live streaming so anyone can watch it. No one watching said anything about irregularities. The most publicized account of fraud was the postal worker and his fake affidavit that was recanted using a real affidavit. That didnt even involve the state, it supposedly took place at the post office.

You just want fraud. You want to see the election discredited. Admit it. You will cling to any claim in hopes of proving this election crooked. My question is...is it only this election or do you hope to see the entire system discredited?

**FloridaBasedFan** · 11-11-2020, 10:31 PM

Has anyone here who is desperate to find fraud, for whatever reason, bothered to ask themselves why it is the GOP did so well down ballot at both the state and national levels? If the DEMS were going to go as far as to rig the Presidential vote why not help any down ballot candidates in the party. In GA they could have swung the senate, house seats and state seats could have been won, but nope the dems only rigged the Presidential vote.

I think Occam's Razor may apply here. People didnt want to vote for Trump but were willing to vote down ballot for GOP. Those who voted President only were registering anti Trump votes, not pro Dem votes. If they were pro dem they would have voted dem down ballot. If they were fake the down ballot would include dem votes as well.

**bacchys** · 11-11-2020, 10:32 PM

Originally Posted by NCRAVEN

In GA they said they were stopping counting because the water main break. The Republicans claim they went home and that the counters stayed and counted. I haven’t seen that claimed refuted yet.

I haven't seen it supported. A bunch of people who weren't there claiming something happened? That just sounds stupid.

**jonboy79** · 11-11-2020, 10:36 PM

Originally Posted by FloridaBasedFan

If these votes were in fact taken away, mistakenly or not then they need to be corrected if they havent been already. If the people voted Trump in then its 4 more years of Trump. Plain and simple. Im not a fan at all, he is not a traditional conservative by any stretch, he is caustic as hell, but if he wins the vote he is the boss.

I am souring more and more on the electoral college in its present form. It allows a substantial minority an overabundance of power IMO. I dont believe the rural, less densely populated areas should be overlooked but when you have 3, 4, 5 million vote majorities either losing or winning by a hair that says to me that the majority is being vastly under represented. I may not like many of the ideas that majority embraces but still, that is a vast majority.

In what world is 1-2% a “VAST Majority”??? Even 5 million votes is only 3%...

If you no longer believe in the EC, have a conversation about state/local politics with someone from Upstate New York...

They have been RULED by NYC for generations, They have no say at all in how their state is run, the inhabitants of a SMALL portion of the acreage of the state decide what is right for all. It is so bad, that honestly, upstate NY is basically an unrepresented colony of NYC, taxation without representation... it should become two states.

The EC becomes more and more essential every year. Although, honestly, I think the US should likely Balkanize and make the need go away. Cut off the west coast(CA, OR, WA)and the northeast(New England plus NYC and NJ) and we can have a republican country and two socialist Mecca’s sure to run out of money in a couple weeks...

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**NCRAVEN** · 11-11-2020, 10:43 PM

Originally Posted by bacchys

I haven't seen it supported. A bunch of people who weren't there claiming something happened? That just sounds stupid.

Well, if you don’t do some critical thinking sure it does. You leave you have a lot of ballots to count, you come back there’s less to count. Ouch, that hurt my brain. If you need me to do anymore for you can you give me a few minutes for the Advil to kick in?

**FloridaBasedFan** · 11-11-2020, 11:01 PM

Originally Posted by jonboy79

In what world is 1-2% a “VAST Majority”??? Even 5 million votes is only 3%...

If you no longer believe in the EC, have a conversation about state/local politics with someone from Upstate New York...

They have been RULED by NYC for generations, They have no say at all in how their state is run, the inhabitants of a SMALL portion of the acreage of the state decide what is right for all. It is so bad, that honestly, upstate NY is basically an unrepresented colony of NYC, taxation without representation... it should become two states.

The EC becomes more and more essential every year. Although, honestly, I think the US should likely Balkanize and make the need go away. Cut off the west coast(CA, OR, WA)and the northeast(New England plus NYC and NJ) and we can have a republican country and two socialist Mecca’s sure to run out of money in a couple weeks...

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If you have read any of my prior posts I never said I want to do away with the electoral college. I said I much prefer Maddisons original setup which would have not allowed winner take all in states.

Also, those balkanized areas you mentioned support what would be your GOP country. Almost every state you mentioned puts more into the federal coffers than they get back.

**FloridaBasedFan** · 11-11-2020, 11:05 PM

Originally Posted by NCRAVEN

Well, if you don’t do some critical thinking sure it does. You leave you have a lot of ballots to count, you come back there’s less to count. Ouch, that hurt my brain. If you need me to do anymore for you can you give me a few minutes for the Advil to kick in?

Ouch, thats a pretty sharp person who can look around a room and say hey, we dont have a 100,000 votes to count anymore, we only have 91,000. And where is the lawsuit? If the party is willing to file suit over 4 feet of distance surely they would file suit over the counting of ballots completely unsupervised. Could it be one persons claim without evidence to back it up? Like the GOP supporter who claimed all these dead people voted and when verified it turned out none. Or the GOP rep who said thousands of out of state people voted ilegally and when checked out it turned out the bulk were military and all had legally claimed citizenship within the state and were entitled to vote absentee.

You just are dying to find massive fraud. You cant accept that Trump alienated millions and your answer is simply its got to be fraud.