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  1. #49

    Re: Stock market crashing this week with Biden projected winner

    Quote Originally Posted by BuryRaven View Post
    Vehemently disagree, have you never heard of the laffer curve? The 80s as well as 2017-2019 prove this curves explanatory power.
    It's okay, he stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

    You're just an economist.





  2. #50

    Re: Stock market crashing this week with Biden projected winner

    Quote Originally Posted by bacchys View Post
    The economies would have done what they did regardless of the tax cuts. The higher tax rate would have brought in more revenue.

    Magic isn't real. You need to quit believing in it.





    Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
    Are you being:
    A. Intellectually dishonest?
    B. Ignorant of the subject on which you speak?
    C. Carrots, there is no third choice.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk





  3. #51
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    Re: Stock market crashing this week with Biden projected winner

    Quote Originally Posted by BuryRaven View Post
    Vehemently disagree, have you never heard of the laffer curve? The 80s as well as 2017-2019 prove this curves explanatory power.
    I mentioned the Laffer Curve upthread.





  4. #52
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    Re: Stock market crashing this week with Biden projected winner

    Quote Originally Posted by jonboy79 View Post
    Are you being:
    A. Intellectually dishonest?
    B. Ignorant of the subject on which you speak?
    C. Carrots, there is no third choice.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I'm both intellectually honest and not ignorant of the subject.

    Suppose you're running a business that sells widgets. Lowering the cost can increase demand (basic economics), so you do. You see an uptick in sales and revenue, and one would think the cost-cutting worked. But if your competitor saw an equal increase in widget sales without reducing his prices, it wasn't your cost-cutting that spurred demand. It would have to be something else.

    The economic impact of the tax cuts, if any, was negligible, and, as already mentioned, matched or exceeded by the negative effects of Trump's tax increases. The Congressional Research Service estimated the TCJA reduced revenues by $170 billion.

    https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxv...-2017-tax-cuts

    But whatever your priors in this argument, the CRS paper, written by Jane Gravelle and Donald Marples, finds little evidence that the tax cuts had any significant economic benefit. They did substantially lower effective corporate tax rates and generate a flood of stock buybacks and dividends for shareholders. But Gravelle and Marples are a lot like those who looked so hard to find Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction. They searched, but found almost nothing.

    And because the TCJA did so little to boost the economy, it fell wildly short of paying for itself in growth-driven new revenue. CRS calculated that the TCJA reduced federal revenue by about $170 billion in Fiscal Year 2018, with corporations benefitting most from the tax cuts.

    In fairness, the tax cuts didn’t occur in a vacuum. Some of their benefits may have been offset by President Trump’s own highly restrictive trade policy, or magnified by new deficit spending approved by Congress in 2018. But overall, as TPC predicted in December, 2017, short-term macroeconomic effects were extremely modest. This is consistent with the findings of TaxVox’s quarterly updates on the post-TCJA economy.
    The trend lines of GDP growth further bolster this: we continued on the same trajectory until the pandemic that we had pretty much from the end of the Great Recession.sustainable-economic-growth.jpg



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  5. #53

    Stock market crashing this week with Biden projected winner

    Quote Originally Posted by bacchys View Post
    I'm both intellectually honest and not ignorant of the subject.

    Suppose you're running a business that sells widgets. Lowering the cost can increase demand (basic economics), so you do. You see an uptick in sales and revenue, and one would think the cost-cutting worked. But if your competitor saw an equal increase in widget sales without reducing his prices, it wasn't your cost-cutting that spurred demand. It would have to be something else.

    The economic impact of the tax cuts, if any, was negligible, and, as already mentioned, matched or exceeded by the negative effects of Trump's tax increases. The Congressional Research Service estimated the TCJA reduced revenues by $170 billion.

    https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxv...-2017-tax-cuts



    The trend lines of GDP growth further bolster this: we continued on the same trajectory until the pandemic that we had pretty much from the end of the Great Recession.sustainable-economic-growth.jpg



    Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
    All you and by extension “they” did was wave a collective magic wand and. Declare an opinion a fact. Declaring there was negligible effect is not something one can prove because life has to happen to observe a result.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk





  6. #54

    Re: Stock market crashing this week with Biden projected winner

    Quote Originally Posted by bacchys View Post
    I mentioned the Laffer Curve upthread.
    And it proved revenue can increase to a certain extent on taxation, a decrease in 2017 showed, we were past the peak, hence the relevance.

    I'm unsure what you're arguing.





  7. #55

    Re: Stock market crashing this week with Biden projected winner

    Quote Originally Posted by jonboy79 View Post
    All you and by extension “they” did was wave a collective magic wand and. Declare an opinion a fact. Declaring there was negligible effect is not something one can prove because life has to happen to observe a result.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    It goes back to the feelings vs facts The left ALWAYS feels like opinions outweigh facts.





  8. #56
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    Re: Stock market crashing this week with Biden projected winner

    Quote Originally Posted by BuryRaven View Post
    And it proved revenue can increase to a certain extent on taxation, a decrease in 2017 showed, we were past the peak, hence the relevance.

    I'm unsure what you're arguing.
    We're on the right side of the Laffer Curve. Well on the right side even per the lower estimates of the optimal tax rate. So, no: the Laffer Curve doesn't show reducing marginal tax rates from one place on the right side of the curve to another further right will increase revenue. Just the opposite. It's a curve. Moving right on the curve is going down the slope, not up.

    Tax rates aren't the only thing affecting revenues. The overall economies do as well (obviously). Tax revenues will be down substantially in 2020, but it won't be because of the marginal tax rates.

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  9. #57
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    Re: Stock market crashing this week with Biden projected winner

    Quote Originally Posted by jonboy79 View Post
    All you and by extension “they” did was wave a collective magic wand and. Declare an opinion a fact. Declaring there was negligible effect is not something one can prove because life has to happen to observe a result.
    The CFR didn't just wave a magic wand and declare an opinion a fact.



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  10. #58

    Re: Stock market crashing this week with Biden projected winner

    Quote Originally Posted by bacchys View Post
    The CFR didn't just wave a magic wand and declare an opinion a fact.



    Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
    It’s a prediction, it can’t be a fact.
    It’s a well founded opinion, but it is still based on a simplified approximation using assumptions, so it’s an opinion. It can not be observed or proven in any manner, therefore it must be an opinion and cannot be a fact: Facts are verifiable.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk





  11. #59

    Re: Stock market crashing this week with Biden projected winner

    Quote Originally Posted by jonboy79 View Post
    It’s a prediction, it can’t be a fact.
    It’s a well founded opinion, but it is still based on a simplified approximation using assumptions, so it’s an opinion. It can not be observed or proven in any manner, therefore it must be an opinion and cannot be a fact: Facts are verifiable.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    This is the same problem the left falls into with global warming predictions. They treat these opinions as fact.

    Bacc is claiming (as if factual) that a trend line would definitely continue, based on the authors selective samples.

    Vs showing the actual tax revenue that was collected.

    After three pages of this, we have a few of us using facts to settle a discussion, and others using opinion on what they think might have happened in the future. It’s a pointless circle jerk.





  12. #60

    Re: Stock market crashing this week with Biden projected winner

    Quote Originally Posted by Vlad the lad View Post
    This is the same problem the left falls into with global warming predictions. They treat these opinions as fact.

    Bacc is claiming (as if factual) that a trend line would definitely continue, based on the authors selective samples.

    Vs showing the actual tax revenue that was collected.

    After three pages of this, we have a few of us using facts to settle a discussion, and others using opinion on what they think might have happened in the future. It’s a pointless circle jerk.
    Actually it’s worse then that because the growth trend was established, after tax cuts it was well exceeded and then he is still saying it would have been more without the tax cuts, for some reason expecting the number to just jump even more than post tax cut





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