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  1. #37
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    Re: Stock market crashing this week with Biden projected winner

    Quote Originally Posted by Vlad the lad View Post
    Not sure what this is? Are you playing a childish game of “I know you are but what am I”? I was responding to someone that said tax cuts decrease revenue. I showed that they do. You disputed that, by agreeing that revenue went up.
    You're definitely childish. The tax cuts did decrease revenue. That revenues increased year to year doesn't mean the tax cuts didn't reduce it. Federal revenues would have been higher without the tax cuts.


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  2. #38

    Re: Stock market crashing this week with Biden projected winner

    Quote Originally Posted by bacchys View Post
    You're definitely childish. The tax cuts did decrease revenue. That revenues increased year to year doesn't mean the tax cuts didn't reduce it. Federal revenues would have been higher without the tax cuts.


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    We should tag this post. For all future conversations. This clearly shows the difference between conservatives and liberals. Conservatives use facts. Liberals use feelings

    You just posted facts that revenue went up. And now you are saying the tax cuts decreased the number?

    From the US GOV
    https://www.usgovernmentrevenue.com/..._revenue_chart


    Before tax cut
    2015. 3.25
    2016. 3.27
    2017. 3.32
    2018. 3.33
    After tax cut
    2019. 3.46

    The 4 years prior to the cut, tax revenue increased about 1.5% per year
    After the cut the revenue increased 4%





  3. #39
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    Re: Stock market crashing this week with Biden projected winner

    Quote Originally Posted by Vlad the lad View Post
    We should tag this post. For all future conversations. This clearly shows the difference between conservatives and liberals. Conservatives use facts. Liberals use feelings

    You just posted facts that revenue went up. And now you are saying the tax cuts decreased the number?
    You're not a conservative. I am a liberal. I don't doubt you think you're correct, but you clearly just aren't capable or willing to comprehend.

    Revenues would have risen regardless. The effect of the tax cuts on economic growth were negligible, if anything at all (and more than offset by Trump's tax increases). If the government would have collected $100 without the tax cuts and collects $90 with them, they reduced revenues. Even if the $90 is an increase over the previous years revenues.

    Trump took office during good economic times. It was already one of the longest periods of economic growth in our history, and eventually became the longest. He inherited that: he didn't create it (neither did Obama, but that's another argument). Had the Administration instead left the tax code alone and focused on controlling spending we could have reduced the deficit even more than it had under Obama. Instead, they ended Sequestration, increased spending, and cut taxes. We got massive deficit spending and little to show for it, though that does mean the economies the last couple of years hasn't been as strong as pretended by Trump supporters.

    I realize PragerU and the Qanon YouTube videos that doubtless make up the bulk of your information aren't going to tell you any of that, but that just means you need to get your head out of the idiot rightwing bubble. We're well on the right of the Laffer Curve. Tax cuts reduce revenues.

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  4. #40

    Re: Stock market crashing this week with Biden projected winner

    Quote Originally Posted by bacchys View Post
    You're not a conservative. I am a liberal. I don't doubt you think you're correct, but you clearly just aren't capable or willing to comprehend.

    Revenues would have risen regardless. The effect of the tax cuts on economic growth were negligible, if anything at all (and more than offset by Trump's tax increases). If the government would have collected $100 without the tax cuts and collects $90 with them, they reduced revenues. Even if the $90 is an increase over the previous years revenues.

    Trump took office during good economic times. It was already one of the longest periods of economic growth in our history, and eventually became the longest. He inherited that: he didn't create it (neither did Obama, but that's another argument). Had the Administration instead left the tax code alone and focused on controlling spending we could have reduced the deficit even more than it had under Obama. Instead, they ended Sequestration, increased spending, and cut taxes. We got massive deficit spending and little to show for it, though that does mean the economies the last couple of years hasn't been as strong as pretended by Trump supporters.

    I realize PragerU and the Qanon YouTube videos that doubtless make up the bulk of your information aren't going to tell you any of that, but that just means you need to get your head out of the idiot rightwing bubble. We're well on the right of the Laffer Curve. Tax cuts reduce revenues.

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    Like I said earlier. You have an issue with facts. The US gov shows that tax revenue the previous 4 years was consistent. 1.5% increase each year. The year after Trump a tax plan, tax revenue growth increased dramatically

    Spin it how you want with feelings. But facts are facts. Unless you are Biden. Didn’t he say he chooses his “truth” over facts.





  5. #41
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    Re: Stock market crashing this week with Biden projected winner

    Facts are facts. You're not dealing with facts.

    You're just peddling bad economics and debunked finance theories.

    And it's Trump who said to pay no attention to facts. His Admin said they like alternative facts.


    On edit: Also, look at the numbers you posted: are they current dollars or constant?





  6. #42

    Re: Stock market crashing this week with Biden projected winner

    I am using US got numbers from the website link. Spin all you want. You are basically using feelings to what YOU THINK the revenue should have been. But there is no evidence.

    As for using current dollars or not, it still shows the growth. Pre tax cut, 1.5% growth. Below GDP
    After tax cut 4%. Above GDP

    If you don’t get this simple economics, there is no point having this conversation.





  7. #43

    Re: Stock market crashing this week with Biden projected winner

    Quote Originally Posted by Vlad the lad View Post
    I am using US got numbers from the website link. Spin all you want. You are basically using feelings to what YOU THINK the revenue should have been. But there is no evidence.

    As for using current dollars or not, it still shows the growth. Pre tax cut, 1.5% growth. Below GDP
    After tax cut 4%. Above GDP

    If you don’t get this simple economics, there is no point having this conversation.
    It’s a lost cause. Liberals view tax cuts as spending, when they are not. The ironic thing is that vis one of the few spending ‘increases’ the liberals don’t like. Spend more on education, housing, art, they are all for it. Let people keep more of the money they earned, they are against it.





  8. #44
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    Re: Stock market crashing this week with Biden projected winner

    Tax cuts aren't spending. Taxes and spending are both part of the budget, and therefore the deficit.

    Congress sets the amount the government spends. They also set taxes. They should set taxes sufficiently to cover spending. Since the '80s, we've severed the two and have given ourselves a discount on government resulting in a massive increase in the size and scope of the Federal government.

    When Congress reduces taxes from a point on the Laffer Curve to the right of the maximum of the Laffer Curve it reduces revenue. We're well to the right of the optimum tax rate (which in economic terms is just the rate which maximizes revenue).

    So the tax cuts reduced revenue from what they would have been in the absence of the tax cuts.



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  9. #45
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    Re: Stock market crashing this week with Biden projected winner

    Quote Originally Posted by Vlad the lad View Post
    I am using US got numbers from the website link. Spin all you want. You are basically using feelings to what YOU THINK the revenue should have been. But there is no evidence.

    As for using current dollars or not, it still shows the growth. Pre tax cut, 1.5% growth. Below GDP
    After tax cut 4%. Above GDP

    If you don’t get this simple economics, there is no point having this conversation.
    You didn't answer the question: are those current or constant dollars?

    I don't think you have a clue what you're talking about.

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  10. #46

    Re: Stock market crashing this week with Biden projected winner

    Quote Originally Posted by bacchys View Post
    You're definitely childish. The tax cuts did decrease revenue. That revenues increased year to year doesn't mean the tax cuts didn't reduce it. Federal revenues would have been higher without the tax cuts.


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    Hen revenue increases from one year to the next despite a tax cut that is normal. A higher tax rate would not have guaranteed higher revenue because income may have been lower.

    Stating that Trumps tax cuts reduced federal income is a flat out low. Revenue went up, despite the marginal rate dropping. It does not matter what “could have been” because it wasn’t.
    This is the same kind of Math Biden is using when staying he is only raising taxes above $400k, while also admitting to repealing Trump’s tax cuts. It’s what we call losing and you are very good at it like your. Boy.


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  11. #47
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    Re: Stock market crashing this week with Biden projected winner

    Quote Originally Posted by jonboy79 View Post
    Hen revenue increases from one year to the next despite a tax cut that is normal. A higher tax rate would not have guaranteed higher revenue because income may have been lower.

    Stating that Trumps tax cuts reduced federal income is a flat out low. Revenue went up, despite the marginal rate dropping. It does not matter what “could have been” because it wasn’t.
    This is the same kind of Math Biden is using when staying he is only raising taxes above $400k, while also admitting to repealing Trump’s tax cuts. It’s what we call losing and you are very good at it like your. Boy.
    The economies would have done what they did regardless of the tax cuts. The higher tax rate would have brought in more revenue.

    Magic isn't real. You need to quit believing in it.





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  12. #48

    Re: Stock market crashing this week with Biden projected winner

    Quote Originally Posted by bacchys View Post
    The economies would have done what they did regardless of the tax cuts. The higher tax rate would have brought in more revenue.

    Magic isn't real. You need to quit believing in it.





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    Vehemently disagree, have you never heard of the laffer curve? The 80s as well as 2017-2019 prove this curves explanatory power.





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