Ravens trading for Ngakoue

[Dirt1]

Did the Ravens already get a comp pick for Michael Pierce or will that come in the 2021 draft? I think it will come in this upcoming draft. They should get a 5th round comp pick for Pierce.


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[NOLARavenFAN]

It's simply the same mindset any good leader has in battlefield type of planning and logistics.
Knowing your enemy(competition) well gives the advantage of flushing out these opportunistic trade windows.
Knowing your teams weaknesses and doing something proactive to fix it with new talent isn't something most GMs can do well, but EDC's power zone puts making trades others don't pull off right in his wheelhouse.
Even though Ozzy was well respected and had a good relationship with other franchises still didn't equate to pulling the trigger on trades like these that often. He was more in the developing the player and having patience with the growing pains of said player vs. EDC, who understands short Championship windows require quick decisive action if you want to improve the roster.
'

Put it simply like this Lamar is not going to outgun Mahones.... So we' need a defense that can shut them down than an offense that can outscore them. Lamar is going to have to learn to play within the game... .

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[Raveninwoodlawn]

Did the Ravens already get a comp pick for Michael Pierce or will that come in the 2021 draft? I think it will come in this upcoming draft. They should get a 5th round comp pick for Pierce.


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Depends on how the league handles opt outs since Pierce did so.

[Dirt1]

Depends on how the league handles opt outs since Pierce did so.

I thought the reason why the Ravens would get that comp pick in 2021 instead of 2020 was because he opted out of this season. If not, then that comp pick would get pushed to the 2022 draft, which could offset the conditional 2022 5th round pick the Ravens gave up in the trade for Yannick.


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[Shas]

I thought the reason why the Ravens would get that comp pick in 2021 instead of 2020 was because he opted out of this season. If not, then that comp pick would get pushed to the 2022 draft, which could offset the conditional 2022 5th round pick the Ravens gave up in the trade for Yannick.


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Unless I am misunderstanding you, you're a year off in your calibration.

UFA players who signed with a new team prior to the 2020 draft would never earn a team compensation in the 2020 draft. You have to wait until the 2020 season is played to plug in all the mysterious factors that go into the comp formula. In fact, the deadline for signing a UFA without it impacting the comp formula was May 8 this year. So any UFA signed from March 18 through May 7, 2020—after the 2020 draft even—counts toward the comp formula...in 2021.

The Ravens only two comp picks in 2020 were for losing Mosley and John Brown in the 2019 offseason. (the loss of Za'Darius Smith was balanced out by the addition of Earl Thomas and the signing of Mark Ingram II canceled out the departure of Terrell Suggs.)

For 2021 the signing of Wolfe can cancels the loss of Seth Roberts.

That leaves only Pierce, to net a fifth rounder, or possibly sixth. Not sure the impact of him sitting out...when Mosley sat out with an injury for most of 19 it didn't keep them from getting a third round comp pick, which they used on Tyree Phillips. I doubt it means they push the compensation to 2022...but I don't know.

[Dirt1]

Unless I am misunderstanding you, you're a year off in your calibration.

UFA players who signed with a new team prior to the 2020 draft would never earn a team compensation in the 2020 draft. You have to wait until the 2020 season is played to plug in all the mysterious factors that go into the comp formula. In fact, the deadline for signing a UFA without it impacting the comp formula was May 8 this year. So any UFA signed from March 18 through May 7, 2020—after the 2020 draft even—counts toward the comp formula...in 2021.

The Ravens only two comp picks in 2020 were for losing Mosley and John Brown in the 2019 offseason. (the loss of Za'Darius Smith was balanced out by the addition of Earl Thomas and the signing of Mark Ingram II canceled out the departure of Terrell Suggs.)

For 2021 the signing of Wolfe can cancels the loss of Seth Roberts.

That leaves only Pierce, to net a fifth rounder, or possibly sixth. Not sure the impact of him sitting out...when Mosley sat out with an injury for most of 19 it didn't keep them from getting a third round comp pick, which they used on Tyree Phillips. I doubt it means they push the compensation to 2022...but I don't know.

I think I read online that the Ravens would get a 2021 comp pick for Pierce, but wasn’t sure if him opting out of this season would push that comp pick to the 2022 draft. I think you are right that it would not do that.


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[John Morris]

When it comes to trades, every year I think we fall into this trap of trying to assess who on the roster is expendable, and has value, with the mindset we'll go shopping for hole-filling talent using these expendable players as currency.

Thinking about "what could X player bring in trade" isn't a very fruitful exercise. Aside from the fact that we sometimes overvalue that currency, it's also a case that it's the wrong end of the equation to key on when it comes to trades.

Rather than look to our own roster, you need to look at everyone else's roster to diagnose situations where a team might have incentive to dump a good player who doesn't fit into their future. And then back into an offer that fits that team's needs.

It sounds obvious. But DeCosta didn't land Marcus Peters because he started shopping Kenny Young around the league. DeCosta got Peters because he identified a situation where the Rams were not going to resign the guy and they needed his cap space to upgrade to Ramsey (I am guessing it helped the Eric is buddies with Jags GM David Caldwell, and got wind of the opportunity).

Young's value wasn't empirical; it was 100% dependent on the Rams' unique situation.

Campbell was acquired because he too was a player whose situation made him obtainable. Same with Ngakoue. The player came first; the compensation is secondary.

So when we are on the buyer side of the equation we need to work backwards from the players we can identify as falling into this obtainable situation.

Let's take the Jets as an example. They are probably going to have to reboot at QB and willl need a lot of draft picks to rebuild, so two names have come up as trade possibilities.

One is Jamison Crowder, who is owed the remainder of his $8.5M salary this year and $10M next year. Maybe they would be interested in a running back prospect along with a draft pick, given that their running back is sixty-year old Frank Gore and questionable back ups, Ty Johnson and La'Mical Perine. Hell, maybe they'd even have interest in a Trace McSorley who you'd never think of as a trade chip otherwise. In the end, Crowder's salary is probably too much to bite off for the Ravens.

The other player of interest would be slot CB Brian Poole. He is a much better fit for the Ravens. One, because he fills the Tavon Young role immediately. And two, because he is only owed the remainder of a $1.5M salary, and is a free agent next year. If he plays really well, and the price is right, they could re-sign him to fill Jimmy Smith's roster spot next year, or let him walk and still get a comp pick to offset whatever pick they used to trade for him. If it takes a middling pick and Justice Hill, great.



I won't deny that. Although, other than not having three tight ends, not a lot has changed with the WR, TE and FB personnel in running situations. Even with the tight ends, they only ran "13" personnel on 6% of their offensive snaps last year, so it's not like losing Hurst has killed the running game.

Notwithstanding your point, this is really a case, in this situation, of it being an issue on the OL. Stanley has had some injury issues. Skura is working his way back from a devastating knee. And Yanda was a guy who could block two defenders last year, now handing-off his role to Phillips. As I rewatch games focusing on the line, I can see good performances across the board, but not on a consistent basis and often not everyone executing at the same time on a given play. They aren't in synch yet.

Here's something else that I think might be noteworthy. I want to see what everyone here thinks.

Not unlike the way we talk about trades—looking at our own roster first—shouldn't we consider the opposing defensive fronts they've faced?

Other than Cincy, I think you can go back to before every game—Cleveland, Houston, KC, Washington, Philly--and ask where does the strength of this opponent lie? In every case the first player you name on defense is a Pro-Bowl level, disruptive, get-in-the backfield type of player in the box...sometimes more than one. Regardless of what the rankings for rushing defense say, I believe this type of opponent is a bad match up for the Ravens. Defenders who penetrate upfield quickly explain the the troubles we've seen with the Ravens pull-oriented blocking and reduced passing windows that have forced Jackson to go side-arm on so many throws.

As I look at the remaining non-conference games—Cowboys, Giants, Jags, Patriots, Colts, Titans—I don't think you can say the same about premium penetrators up front. I expect we're going to be talking about how the Ravens offensive line came together in the second half of the season (and few will be talking about how they faced less daunting defensive fronts). The question will be how much of the gelling was real, come playoff time.

Great post. You're playing chess while some others play checkers. Spot on accurate analysis.

[Greg]

I heard that Yannick has also forced something like 4 fumbles this year so far. Between him and Fruit Punch, that is going to be a lot of loose balls.

Fruit Punch . . . Loose Balls . . .

Never mind.

[Culex]

We lead the league in forced turnovers. Gonna need that come January

[Greg]

With the Cowboys now looking done even in that crap division I would give Jerrah a call and see about Gallup.

I know, but at some point even Jones has to realize this year is done and he needs at minimum a semi-rebuild on defense and the OL.

[WNCRavensFan]

With the Cowboys now looking done even in that crap division I would give Jerrah a call and see about Gallup.

I know, but at some point even Jones has to realize this year is done and he needs at minimum a semi-rebuild on defense and the OL.

Very much agree, I've been on the Gallup train because I don't see Dallas carrying three high priced WRs moving forward (Cooper, Gallup, Lamb) along with Zeke's deal and Dak's presumably exorbitant contract.

Lamb is still a rookie so maybe they fit Gallup under the cap but they really need to invest a lot elsewhere.

[TompaBay12]

With the Cowboys now looking done even in that crap division I would give Jerrah a call and see about Gallup.

I know, but at some point even Jones has to realize this year is done and he needs at minimum a semi-rebuild on defense and the OL.

I would love it but Jerry is stubborn