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  1. #49
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    Re: Unsuccessful Pass Plays

    Quote Originally Posted by JimZipCode View Post
    One thing I'd like to do here is similar to what I did when I tried to teach myself about "drops" a year & a half ago:
    Identify some factors that could contribute to an unsuccessful play, and then for each individual play list which factors were present. The hope is that after gathering enough plays, we ought to be able to see some trends about which factors are cropping up most often.
    Love it.

    One of the main issues with "observation" or "general expression" scouting is using perceptions over numbers.

    This is a nibble of trait based scouting analytics. Observing then accurately quantifying the field play into data.

    Are you doing this on excel?

    Not sure if you were asking for input or nah and not sure how deep you were trying to go...

    Overall Play Data:
    personnel
    formation
    down and distance
    play concept {identify the play concept can give an eye into the progression/reads....smash concept, drag concept, curl-flat, f-stop concept, WASP concept etc}

    QB-pre-snap:
    how much time on the play clock
    which direction of the field does Lamar begin his read
    (^^is this side of the field correct based on the match-up?)

    QB-post-snap:
    ball placement-where on the receivers frame was the ball thrown -did the receiver have to adjust?
    throwing motion / throwing angle
    throwing mechanics- drive step, hip and shoulder rotation, shoulder replacement, arm follow-thu
    timing-did the ball leave Lamar's hands at the top of his drop?
    footwork-type of drop: rocker, gun 1-2 step, standard 3 step, 5 step, 7
    does the QB have enough space to step and throw

    WR-
    location
    route
    press vs free release
    did they win at the los
    inside/outside release
    separation
    play on the ball-aggressive, passive, high point the ball

    defense-coverage as best as you can tell-Cover 1/3, Cover 2 Man/Zone, Cover 4, Split Coverages
    "Those corners...and those safeties are going to be one-on-one... and we got to make them pay for it," Harbs

    "I think he’d be[Lamar] the greatest player in the history of the game,” Young said





  2. #50
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    Re: Unsuccessful Pass Plays

    Quote Originally Posted by Culex View Post
    How many usernames are you gonna make lol
    One for every thread you start

    Sent from my LM-G820 using Tapatalk





  3. #51

    Re: Unsuccessful Pass Plays

    I like the time and effort out into this. Looking through some of the passes it’s tough to tell what his actual progressions are. Also without knowing how much actual time he had in the pocket I can draw any definitive conclusion.

    As a non scientific opinion from looking through these it seems like Lamar will get better at reading the defense pre snap and knowing who will be open and when.

    Seems like he sticks to his progressions regardless of the defense, which is causing him to miss open receivers.

    It’s not something I expect a year 3 QB to know be able to know with any consistency, but it will make a noticeable improve





  4. #52
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    Re: Unsuccessful Pass Plays

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravensblitzkrieg View Post
    Seems like he sticks to his progressions regardless of the defense, which is causing him to miss open receivers.
    Lamar's rookie season and last year, he seemed to have a real gift for seeing the whole field. This year he's seemed more plodding and "procedural" with his reads. Maybe the Ravens are asking him to do more? Or defenses are forcing him to stop & think? Hopefully it's just a spot that he & the Ravens have to work thru.

    The other thing is that, we're still in the phase where defenses are showing something new every week. Esp divisional opponents and conference repeats from last year: they spent some of the offseason cooking up something special just for Lamar, and he's been seeing it all for the first time. But at some point he will have seen most all of the different curves & sliders & knucklers & Eephus pitches etc.

    We could look back on this phase and see it as the toughest 6- or 7-game stretch of Lamar's career. And frankly this is pretty damn good for a "bottom".





  5. #53
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    Re: Unsuccessful Pass Plays

    Quote Originally Posted by 00000 View Post
    These types of posts THOUGH appreciated are kind of pointless without knowing progressions and such. WE have the advantage of a post play sky cam, whereas QB has about .5-2 seconds to diagnose and make a decision AND hopefully another second to make the pass.. or else they are likely running for there life if they arent already. This isnt even considering their obstructed view.
    you do realize that the top players and coaches around the league spend hours and hours watching film every week of the year trying to identify patterns, concepts, tendencies, find weaknesses, understand schemes...and until a few years ago the current all-22 film was only available to select few people? there's an insane amount of information there for each and every play, even if you dont know the exact play that was called. not to mention, if you get really really good at it and supplement with reading some playbooks or watching coaching videos, you do get to a point where you recognize some of the plays (or the basis of the plays), and from that you know (or guess) what the intended progressions are.





  6. #54
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    Re: Unsuccessful Pass Plays

    I lost some momentum with the excitement of Steelers week, and the anticipation of celebrating a huge win.
    That excitement is thoroughly drained away. Plenty of renewed motivation for looking at bad passing plays.
    Here's the rest of the Cincy game.



    Q3 14:21 - 2&7, RAV 28: Lamar pass incomplete short middle intended for Patrick Ricard
    5-step drop from shotgun with 2 hitches. Bengals send 4 against 7 man protections.

    Here's Lamar between hitches:


    There's not much available right here. Dobbins is partially obscured by #23, approaching the 35-yard-line. He's going to come open.
    Boykin is at full sprint at the bottom of the screen, and he's forced #22 to bail. It would be sweet if he started a comeback right when the corner bails, but I think he's clearing out for Dobbins.


    Above, a beat or so after the second hitch. Ricard has leaked out of the pass-pro.
    Lamar has initiated his throwing motion when he feels #58's arm come around his waist.
    He pulls down the ball, tries to reset while in the grasp, and gooes to Ricard at the last instant. Bounces off his hand.
    I think Lamar was originally going to Dobbins, who's crossing the 40. Here's the reverse angle:


    Lamar is looking left, and see how wide his stance is. He's going to the left side of the field.
    After he takes the contact, he visibly resets (not shown) and tries the dumpoff to Ricard.
    It's kind of a miracle he gets this ball off, it should be a sack. Almost catchable.

    Can I say early pressure when it was like 3-1/2 secs? I think "early" relative to what you expect from 7-man protection. Maybe "surprising" pressure.

    (OL leak, contact on QB, +play by rusher, slow-developing play, uncatchable throw)



    Q3 14:14 - 3&7, RAV 28: Lamar pass complete short middle to Marquise Brown for 5 yards (tackle by Jessie Bates)

    Bobbled snap from shotgun, looks like intended to be a 5-step drop but footwork muddied by recovering the bobble. Two hitches from the top of the drop.
    3 man rush against 7-man protection. Lamar takes off and rolls left after the second hitch. Here's what he was looking at:


    Lamar is not actually under pressure here, but his timer should be going off. It's been about 3-1/2 secs.

    There's not much available. Andrews is doubled in midfield. Boykin is just running off the defender as a decoy; he doesn't win the route, but the defender was reading him to go deep all the way.
    That's Marquise running the crosser at the 30. Lamar will eventually throw it to him, but only after he distorts the D and Marquise cuts back.
    I think it makes sense NOT to throw to Marquise at this moment. Marquise is bracketed, with that near (to us) defender coming downhill toward the potential catch point.
    Honestly the most promising routes are Dobbins & Boyle releasing from pass-pro. There's only one defender to that side of the field, for both targets.

    Lamar rolls 13 or so steps to the left before flipping his hips to throw. This next pic is midway, about as his seventh step is about to land. I figure this is about the last moment he still has multiple target options on this play. He could stick that left foot, flip his hips, get his right foot down and delivery to multiple locations.


    Scramble drill. Marquise has finished his route and is about to reverse direction and come open.
    I think Lamar wants Andrews, at the 40. There's something about his body language when Andrews might be open.
    Maybe if Lamar had his base he could deliver to Andrews, but it would require a good throw: maybe too good from this off-platform position.
    Boykin is looking up for the ball that could hypothetically be arriving. He looks back to Lamar a step or so later and starts his scramble-drill moves.
    Easy for me to say, but I think the play is to the backside. Lamar would have to stop and spin to deliver the ball, but Boyle has big gain here, easy.
    And it's fun to fantasize about Lamar zipping a little dart to Dobbins while Boyle lines up that poor LB for a kill shot. Dobbins in the open field with 2 safeties ~20 yds away? Yes please.


    Lamar has kept this play alive til the last possible instant. The last several steps of his roll-out have been a demonstration of how one's options dwindle as life drags on. There was a time when I could have grown into a great martial artist, or a fine novelist, or a successful investor, or something. Now I'm ruining my eyesight over low-image-quality replays for an internet forum. Likewise there was a time in this play when Lamar could have broken the pocket and run up the seam with only a LB to juke for a first down. There was a time when a decisive dart to the 40 might have let Andrews pick up a dozen yards and the first down. There was a time when Lamar could have flipped his hips and sent the ball to the other side of the field, like you sometimes see on a designed kick return, and made the backside safety & one OLB try to deal with Dobbins & Boyle. Have fun with THAT, motherfuckers. There was even a time when Lamar could have yelled "Yolo!" and forced the deep corner to defend a sideline bomb to our big #2 WR. Y'know, hypothetically.

    This cornocopea of options has dwindled til now all that's left is Marquise finally shaking free for a little lob. Lamar can't put anything on it, so it hangs in the air long enough for defenders to converge for the tackle.

    Philosophy aside, I'm grappling with questions on how to "tag" this play. One seems obvious: "Good coverage / Good D call".

    One seems counter-intuitive. Even though Lamar is literally in the grasp, I am *not* listing this with the "contact on QB" tag. My feel here is that Lamar chose the throwing moment, and invited the contact. Contact did not effect the throwing accuracy, or flush Lamar, or jostle him while escaping. Contact was not a factor in the development of the play, if you follow me.

    One factor seems new: "Too many eligibles stay in to block, and they release too late to be legitimate targets, thus unnecessarily limiting Lamar's targets." That one rolls right off the tongue, huh? But look at this pic:


    That's just after Lamar's 2nd hitch, as he's just about to start rolling left. We know from the All-22 that there's only one defender for Boyle & Dobbins. There should be a plan for them to attack the backside. Is there one?
    And then there's Andrews. I said above that the throw to him was too tough. But was it?


    That pic above is Lamar's 3rd stride of the roll-out. We've seen him complete harder throws to Andrews, right? But he's still got eyes on Marquise.
    I'm gonna go with my first instinct and NOT add the tag "skipped easier early target". But I'm not sure I'm right.

    (Good coverage / Good D call, Too many blockers)

    EDIT: Just read a post where Ed uses the phrase "not enough eligibles". Similar idea. But I think he's using that phrase to refer to routes being "wasted", ie just being clear-outs rather than legitimate target threats. Point here is that too many guys are staying in too long to block.



    Q3 10:50 - 1&10, RAV 20: Lamar pass incomplete short right intended for Marquise Brown (defended by D.J. Reader)

    Lamar one-step drop from Pistol. Tipped.


    (Tipped - RG Powers)





  7. #55
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    Re: Unsuccessful Pass Plays

    Q3 8:44 - 2&7, CIN 42: Lamar pass incomplete short left

    Play-action fake from Pistol, Gus runs the wrong path around Lamar, play is busted, Lamar scrambles.


    (RB miscommunication, busted play, early pressure, throw on the run)



    Q3 8:33 - 3&7, CIN 42: Lamar pass incomplete short middle intended for Willie Snead

    One-step drop from Pistol. Lamar looks like he's ready to throw at the top of the drop, changes his mind, resets, looks like he's ready again, resets AGAIN, finally delivers.
    Play-by-play has Snead as the intended target, but this is a tweener. Gus is crossing underneath Snead; pass is a little behind Gus, he tips it in the air, but it's too far out in front of Snead. Would have been even without the deflection, I think.


    This above is Lamar at the top of his drop, looking like he's about to pull the trigger. Who do you think he's looking at here? I think it might be Hollywood, top of the screen. Brown needs another stride or two to decisively beat that corner; I think Lamar comes off him too early. Really, why come off him at all?


    Above is after Lamar has slid up in the pocket a bit; he's about to pull the trigger to Gus when Gus looks away and decides to work more open. Here's what Lamar sees:


    So with Gus looking away, Lamar resets again.


    Above is when Lamar finally throws. Kudos to Gus for actively looking for open space. Bad throw, I think. Could be either Gus or Snead, both extremely viable.


    (QB comes off deep route too early, checkdown, uncatchable throw)

    Should I have a tag for "narrowing of view"? Lamar seems focused on Gus short, when there were still other viable targets.



    Q3 2:45 - 3&3, CIN 21: Lamar pass incomplete deep right intended for Miles Boykin

    This is the play where Lamar threw deep but Boykin stayed short. 3-step drop from shotgun.


    Above is when Lamar pulls the trigger. Interesting to contrast with the above play; Lamar *didn't* pull the trigger to Marquise with similar positioning, but *DOES* here to Boykin. We talk about Lamar's trust level with Boykin. Should we be talking about Lamar's trust level with Marquise this year?

    Here's an interesting aspect of this play:


    Ball in the air, Boykin initiates contact with the DB. Is he trying to make a "savvy veteran play", knowing he's not catching up to the ball and instead trying to find a flag?

    (Miscommunication)



    Q4 13:03 - 1&10, RAV 20: Lamar pass incomplete short right intended for Willie Snead (defended by Akeem Davis-Gaither)

    3-step drop from Pistol. Lamar delivers on-time.


    I think Lamar expects Snead to sit in the passing window, but Snead keeps running his route. Really bad, dangerous throw.


    Droppped INT.

    (uncatchable throw)





  8. #56
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    Re: Unsuccessful Pass Plays

    @Philly



    Q1 12:35 - 2&10, PHI 47: Lamar sacked by Brandon Graham for no gain

    Play-action fake from Pistol into bootleg right. Philly #55 beats Ricard's block at the line and turns Lamar's roll into a scramble


    Lamar wins up racing #55 to the sideline

    (early pressure, OL leak)




    Q1 11:23 - 1&10, PHI 36: Lamar right end for 1 yard (tackle by Nathan Gerry)

    Play action fake from shotgun and roll right. As above Philly #55 comes off Ricard's block and pursues Lamar, chases him to the sideline.


    Lamar's motion actually helps the rusher uncover – helps him get an angle on Ricard's block. Lamar might have been able to settle in a "pocket" if he'd parked himself behind Boyle for a second.

    I think Lamar is looking at Boykin on the sideline here. That's Snead in the seam.
    There's a huge play available here to Andrews between the hashes, but Lamar can't set his feet to find it.

    (Good coverage, Scramble)




    Q1 5:06 - 2&12, RAV 23: Lamar pass incomplete short middle intended for J.K. Dobbins (defended by Josh Sweat)

    Play-action fake to Dobbins to set up the screen to Dobbins. Tipped.


    Hey, a screen!
    Well designed,too.

    (+ play by defender)



    Q1 5:03 - 3&12, RAV 23: Lamar pass incomplete short middle intended for Marquise Brown (defended by Fletcher Cox)

    Another tip. 5 steps and a hitch out of shotgun. Cox walks Tyre P back into Lamar's lap then gets enough space to time his jump and bat the pass.
    Lamar also takes a QB hit from Josh Sweat, working around Stanley from the left.


    (+ play by defender)

    Marquise is coming open into a hole in the zone.
    This is two well-designed plays in a row, defeated by great individual plays by Eagles front-7 defenders.




    Q1 3:28 - 2&8, RAV 21: Lamar pass incomplete short left intended for Marquise Brown

    Play-action fake to the right from shotgun, then roll left.


    Duvernay tips this, makes it uncatchable for Marquise.

    (Other receiver tipped! I don't have a category for that.)



    Q1 3:21 - 3&13, RAV 16: Lamar pass incomplete short right intended for Willie Snead

    One- or two-step drop from empty. Clean pocket, no pressure.


    The thing that jumps out here is, 3rd & 12 and *ALL* the routes are at 5 yards! Are we even trying to get the 1st down? Most of them are open, but so what?
    Possible that it's intentionally conservative play-calling from the shadow of their goal line.
    Seems to me that Marquise is the slightly better target here. Faster player + his defender is further off.

    (bad throw, un-aggressive play call / game situation)





  9. #57
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    Re: Unsuccessful Pass Plays

    More Philly



    Q2 12:16 - 3&7, PHI 27: Lamar pass incomplete short right intended for J.K. Dobbins. Penalty on Ronnie Stanley: Illegal Formation (Declined)

    3 steps and a hitch from shotgun. Dobbins releases from the backfield and is wide open.


    This is very similar to a "drop" Boykin had in game 2 vs Arizona last year. Dobbins slows, expecting Lamar to put the ball on him, and Lamar throws expecting him to keep running his route.

    (bad route by RB / drop)



    Q2 10:28 - 1&10, RAV 30: Lamar pass incomplete short left intended for Mark Andrews

    Play-action fake from Pistol and then a deep drop with 7-man protection.
    Lamar one-hops it to Andrews.


    I think this is the throw that MOST made Ed pull his hair out. No pressure whatsoever, Lamar is absolutely clean, and look at Lamar's arm angle:


    Honestly the feet aren't great either. Hip closed: look where the front foot is pointing.

    (Bad throw, bad mechanics)



    Q2 9:41 - 3&10, RAV 30: Lamar left end for 10 yards (tackle by Cre'von LeBlanc)

    5 steps and a hitch from shotgun against a 4-man rush, both OTs are beaten FAST and Lamar has to accelerate up thru compressed pocket.


    Guys are open but Lamar's gotta go.

    (early pressure)




    Q2 7:12 - 1&25, RAV 41: Lamar pass complete short left to Nick Boyle for 6 yards (tackle by Josh Sweat and Shaun Bradley). Penalty on Ronnie Stanley: Illegal Block Above the Waist 10 yards (no play)

    Fakes a swing pass to the RB to the right, then comes back to throw a TE screen to the left.


    Another screen!

    But I dunno man: is Boyle the player we should be throwing a screen to? Stanley whiffs on the safety, and the LB #54 comes flying in to get a piece of Boyle's legs. Really the whole Iggles D closes VERY fast on this. The is one of those plays that looks well-designed, but the receiver is not very dynamic.
    I kinda think the faked swing pass might have been the better target.

    (+ play by defender)




    Q2 6:20 - 2&30, RAV 36: Lamar pass incomplete short right intended for Mark Andrews (defended by Nathan Gerry) (defended by Genard Avery)

    Tipped at the line by the left end #58. One-step drop from empty vs a 4-man rush.


    (+ play by defender)




    Q2 6:16 - 3&30, RAV 36: Lamar pass complete short right to Devin Duvernay for 9 yards (tackle by Nathan Gerry)

    1-step drop from shotgun. It's 3rd & 30. This is just a quick hitter to get improved field position for the punt.


    (un-ambitious playcall due to game situation)





  10. #58
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    Re: Unsuccessful Pass Plays

    And more Philly:



    Q3 15:00 - 1&10, RAV 25: Lamar pass incomplete short right intended for Marquise Brown. Penalty on Nick Boyle: Ineligible Downfield Pass 5 yards (no play)

    Coming out of halftime, 1-step drop from Pistol. Lamar pumps and hesitates, then throws.


    Above is the first pump. I think Lamar hesitates because he doesn't think Marquise is ready. The throw comes only one step later, nothing really changed except Marquise's head position.
    I don't know what the hell happens here. Does Lamar's hesitation mess up the timing? I'm going to call this a drop, but the throw is not perfect.
    It is another item that makes me question if Lamar has the same trust for Marquise, that he had last year.

    (drop)



    Q3 14:14 - 2&17, RAV 18: Lamar up the middle for 24 yards (tackle by Rodney McLeod)

    5 steps and a hitch or two out of Pistol vs a 4-man rush. Lamar doesn't like what he sees at the top of his drop, and hitches again.


    Who's he staring at, Ricard? Or maybe Marquise down the left sideline?
    There's options here. Why hyper-focus on one guy? Snead is coming open in the middle of the field – #21 is beat, he's flat-footed.

    On the other hand, Philly's back 7 has dropped WAY deep. Lamar rightly determines that he can run for the first down.

    (skips early throws, scramble decision is successful)




    Q3 9:02 - 3&9, PHI 29: Lamar sacked by Malik Jackson for -11 yards
    3 steps and a hitch out of shotgon/Pistol.


    Above, Lamar is about to get flushed by interior pressure from Cox.


    After getting flushed. There is NO WAY IN HELL this should be a sack. Lamar has eyes on the rusher with 6+ yds of space, and *FOUR* viable receivers.
    The most aggressive take would be Duvernay, who's beat his man over on the right by the number 10 on the field.
    Less breathtaking would be the throw to Snead in between the hashes. Also there's Boykin crossing the 25 toward the hash.
    Very interesting is the little cross-body lob to Dobbins. With his speed, gotta think he could run the alley for a big gain.
    But geez! This is Lamar! He could RUN! Seems like he could turn the corner pretty effortlessly vs this LB and get 5 or 10.

    I have no idea what happens here.

    (skips open receivers, skips scrambling, slow non-decision. Brain lock? Trying to do too much?)




    Q3 7:11 - 1&10, RAV 37: Lamar pass complete short right to J.K. Dobbins for -1 yards (tackle by Josh Sweat)

    3-step drop from Pistol, Lamar retreats to set up the screen


    Another screen! The throw is low and behind Dobbins, forcing him to stoop. Philly #94 is able to close and make the play.

    (badly-located throw takes catcher off stride, + play by defender)




    Q3 3:07 - 1&10, RAV 40: Lamar sacked by Brandon Graham for -2 yards

    Play-action fake right from Pistol then roll left.


    Philly's defense played really well in this game. Well-coached. I think Lamar is looking to either Snead crossing or Marquise up top.
    Philly #21 does a great job finding Snead; Marquise's route is not ready.


    Houdini makes the first guy miss and creates some space for himself. This should be a throwaway, unless Lamar is ready to rip it to someone RIGHT NOW.
    He's not. Some amazing dancing ensues, but no positive yardage.

    (great coverage, Lamar does not accept throwaway)




    Q3 1:47 - 3&12, RAV 38: Lamar pass incomplete deep left intended for Miles Boykin

    3 step drop from shotgun. This is the one where Boykin didn't get the audible. He runs deep, Lamar throws the out.


    (miscommunication)





  11. #59
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    Re: Unsuccessful Pass Plays

    Finishing Philly.



    Q4 10:13 - 3&4, PHI 37: Lamar pass incomplete short right

    3-step drop from Pistol vs a 4-man rush. Two pass rushers win at the line and Lamar immediately has trouble.


    The rushers send him into full retreat with no chance to set his feet. He throws it away.


    (early pressure, good coverage, smart throwaway)




    Q4 8:36 - 2&7, PHI 27: Lamar pass incomplete short right intended for Patrick Ricard. Penalty on Ronnie Stanley: Illegal Formation (Declined)

    Play-action fake then a 3-step drop with a hitch vs a 4-man rush. Zeus beaten quickly off the right edge.


    I think Lamar wants Marquise here, bottom of the pic. He's running a weird S-shaped route that he breaks off, but not in time. Lamar takes an extra hitch waiting on it.


    After another routinely miraculous escape, Lamar has rolled right.
    He's strangely indecisive here. He rightly recognizes that there's not much to be gained going to Ricard (though he eventually does so).
    A quick flip to Gus is probably the easy right play.
    More ambitious, probably tempting, is the highlight bullet to Andrews on the sideline at the ten. I think Lamar is right not to attempt that one; but that might be
    But Lamar could run! Ricard will come back to block #91 and Gus will go for the DB on the sideline. The strange thing about this play is the indecisiveness.

    (early pressure, skips easier early throw, slow non-decision)




    Q4 8:02 - 3&17, PHI 37: Lamar pass complete short right to Marquise Brown for 9 yards (tackle by Darius Slay)

    1-step drop from shotgun vs a 4-man rush, Lamar stands-in with the pocket compressing around him.


    That highlighted defender is following Dobbins out to the flat. and he's gonna cross the window to Marquise. Lamar waits for him to clear, throws behind him.
    I could quibble with staring down the right side like that, but this is a good football play. Disciplined in the pocket, aware of defenders and spacing, delivers a strike.
    Moves to good FG range.

    (unambitious call / game situation)




    Q4 3:30 - 3&9, RAV 26: Lamar pass incomplete short right

    3-steps and a hitch vs a 4-man rush. Pass rusher pushes Zeus into the pocket, then left side compresses too, flushing Lamar.


    Above is just before the pressure. I don't see much here. Maybe the shot to Snead up the left hash.


    After being flushed. I see NOTHING. Lamar throws it away.

    (Good coverage, + play by pass rushers)





  12. #60
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    Re: Unsuccessful Pass Plays

    Good work JZ
    Gotta admit that its too much volume for me to respond in any meaningful way but I applaud your work.

    Question:
    Are you keeping some record/totals of your reasons for why plays failed?
    e.g. pass protection-# of times/# of total plays etc....ditto for your other categories e.g., scheme/receiver failure (no one open), QB error
    "Those corners...and those safeties are going to be one-on-one... and we got to make them pay for it," Harbs

    "I think he’d be[Lamar] the greatest player in the history of the game,” Young said





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