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  1. #25
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    Re: Unsuccessful Pass Plays

    Quote Originally Posted by 00000 View Post
    These types of posts THOUGH appreciated are kind of pointless without knowing progressions and such. WE have the advantage of a post play sky cam, whereas QB has about .5-2 seconds to diagnose and make a decision AND hopefully another second to make the pass.. or else they are likely running for there life if they arent already. This isnt even considering their obstructed view.
    Its weird to see something be described as both pointless and appreciated together. This is far from my first time breaking down film. People usually lol (outside of this forum) think i'm pretty good at it. But everyone has their own view. Certainly there are limitations to what we can know without knowing the progression. I would like to think the effort being made to stay within the limitation of what can know when discussing plays are up there with anyone else that does them. *shrugs* But i'm glad you appreciate this pointless endeavor. Either way these types of discussions aren't pointless for me because eventually I plan to go back to doing fantasy football and film discussion as a side gig.
    "Those corners...and those safeties are going to be one-on-one... and we got to make them pay for it," Harbs

    "I think he’d be[Lamar] the greatest player in the history of the game,” Young said





  2. #26
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    Re: Unsuccessful Pass Plays

    Quote Originally Posted by Waywatcher View Post
    The alternative is to mandate all QBs wear mini Go-Pros, the footage from which can then be put up as part of the A-22 or coach's tape. That'd be damn cool, actually, especially watching it on a VR headset like the Valve Index.
    I am 1000% on board with this.





  3. #27
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
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    Central NJ
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    3,887

    Re: Unsuccessful Pass Plays

    Quote Originally Posted by Culex View Post
    So is this just gonna be another platform for you to defend Boykin again
    This whole place is a platform for anyone to present facts and opinions. I guess the ball is in your court to make your case LOL.





  4. #28
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
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    Central NJ
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    3,887

    Re: Unsuccessful Pass Plays

    I want to give Jim a well-deserved good reputation for the effort in this post, but I’m defaulted now to this new Bulletin in my browser. Seems to help from malicious ad attacks but I can’t find the reputation thingy. Anyhow - for the record.





  5. #29
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    Re: Unsuccessful Pass Plays

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackBeak View Post
    ... but I can’t find the reputation thingy. Anyhow - for the record.
    Awww. Thanks, man!





  6. #30
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    Jun 2008
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    Re: Unsuccessful Pass Plays

    OC shared this on Twitter:


    Yes, there is something wrong with the Ravens offense. But it can be fixed.
    by Steven Ruiz · Oct 20, 2020
    https://ftw.usatoday.com/2020/10/bal...ckson-analysis


    A good read. Short & to the point.





  7. #31

    Re: Unsuccessful Pass Plays

    I think this is a great thread. Of course none of us knows if Boykin will develop (or not) or if Lamar needs to work through one more read, but this is what football forums are for. And hey, I like pictures that might or might not tell us alot.





  8. #32

    Re: Unsuccessful Pass Plays

    Great post Jimmy. You're one of the true treasures of this board.

    Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk





  9. #33

    Re: Unsuccessful Pass Plays

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackBeak View Post
    This whole place is a platform for anyone to present facts and opinions. I guess the ball is in your court to make your case LOL.
    How many usernames are you gonna make lol





  10. #34
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    Re: Unsuccessful Pass Plays

    One thing I'd like to do here is similar to what I did when I tried to teach myself about "drops" a year & a half ago:
    Identify some factors that could contribute to an unsuccessful play, and then for each individual play list which factors were present. The hope is that after gathering enough plays, we ought to be able to see some trends about which factors are cropping up most often.

    For example, if on every play I'm seeing "early pressure" and "throw on the run" and "contact on QB", then as fans we might turn our attention to OL.
    On the other hand if "bad route", "miscommunication" and "drop" show up a lot, then we might wonder about receiver. And so on.

    My working list of potential factors:


    Before throw

    QB stuff Defense stuff
    Footwork issue Early pressure
    Skipped open pass contact on QB
    Stared down route Great coverage / Good D call

    If thrown

    QB Receiver Defense
    skipped early throw bad route Contact on QB
    skipped easier open throw Miscommunication Pass defensed
    skipped run drop (hands) +play by defender
    throw on the run Contested catch lost
    bad throw / uncatchable

    Likely I'll add to that list as I go thru more plays.

    Anyway, in subsequent posts, when you see a lot of "tags" on a play after the breakdown, that's what that's about.





  11. #35
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    Re: Unsuccessful Pass Plays

    On to Cincinati!



    Q1 11:30 - 1&10, CIN 31: Lamar pass incomplete deep middle intended for Marquise Brown

    5-step drop and a hitch or two out of Pistol. Designed as a shot play.
    Zeuce Deuce is beaten off the line, and the rusher arrives around the time Lamar hitches.
    Lamar ducks under the pressure and rolls right, flat along the LOS.


    Marquise is open up the right hash, and he was always the intended.
    But Lamar also has Andrews deep (would take a very nice throw), Boyle medium (possible jarring hit on the catch, to knock it loose).
    At first I didn't see Ingram underneath there. He's got room for some YAC.
    But Marquise is clearly the goal.

    That's D̶u̶v̶e̶r̶n̶a̶y̶ Snead along the right sideline (bottom of screen), not getting open.


    At the moment of release, Marquise is wide open near the goal line. This is a TD. Bad throw.
    I also think Marquise pulls up a bit at the end to avoid a hit. Conceivably he could lay out for this one.

    (early pressure, throw on run, bad throw)



    Q1 10:48 - 3&7, CIN 28: Lamar pass incomplete deep middle intended for Mark Andrews (defended by Jessie Bates)

    3-step drop from empty, quads right. Two safetys converge on Andrews, and the underneath one makes a nice play to knock away the pass


    Duvernay is coming open on the crosser: an easier pass, and not double covered. Boykin on the left sideline has beaten single coverage.

    (pass defensed, +play by defender, easier open throw available)



    Q1 6:14 - 1&10, CIN 41: Lamar pass incomplete deep middle intended for Marquise Brown

    Play-action out of Pistol, with 3 steps after the fake and two very leisurely hitches. All kinds of time.


    Seems to me that they get the look they wanted. I probably shouldn't have circled Andrews, tag-teamed as he is, but Lamar takes a long look at him.
    Lamar's rainbow lands 5 yards deep in the end zone, and takes long enough to arrive that the defenders have regrouped and have a better shot at it than Marquise. I think a flatter, zippier throw get caught.

    HOWEVER. This is one of those plays that reminds me that I don't know a damn thing about coverage or playing QB. It could be that Lamar is initially waiting for the middle-of-field safety to declare, and then he doesn't really like what he's seeing, and throws it past the coverage. So rather than a bad throw, this could just be a good decision against a good defensive play call.

    (bad throw, good coverage)



    Q1 4:05 - 2&7, CIN 28: Lamar pass incomplete short right intended for Miles Boykin

    Play action, looks like the back takes the wrong route around Lamar, Lamar tries a 3-step drop after the fake and instantly has a defender in his face.


    Lamar has Ingram early, but he thinks he can make that rusher miss and get a bigger play. Also this all happened very fast.


    In the grasp, Lamar can't put anything on the ball and it falls a yard short of Boykin.

    (early pressure, contact on QB, bad throw, skipped early throw)
    Last edited by JimZipCode; 10-25-2020 at 06:47 PM.





  12. #36
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    Re: Unsuccessful Pass Plays

    Q1 3:07 - 2&14, CIN 23: Lamar pass incomplete short right intended for Gus Edwards

    I dunno why they list this as "short right". Gus is 15 yds downfield. This is a weird play all around.

    3-step drop from empty, Bengals send 5 but the ILB on the left who showed blitz early drops out into the window in front of Andrews. This results in the End on the offense's right being unblocked -- well designed rush, "deceptive pressure".


    Lamar has a free rusher, #94. The window that he probably wanted for Andrews is filled by the dropping LB, although there still is open space to hit Andrews. Marquise is WIDE open on the right. The defender gave a 9+ yard cushion, and Marquise ran a slant. He would have a chance for serious YAC if Lamar hit him here.

    Lamar understandably reacted to the free rusher. But:


    The rusher lost the ball! He thought it was a running play! He bends AWAY from Lamar, trying to find a ball-carrier in the line. There isn't one: all 5 eligibles are out in the pattern.
    Lamar is breaking the pocket because he thought he had to. And he read it right: couldn't know that Sam Hubbard was confused by a non-existant fake.


    Having broken the pocket, Lamar rolls 13 or 14 steps to the sideline before throwing. This pic is 9 steps in. The run looks really viable, doesn't it?


    Lamar has extended this play as long as it possibly could've been. I think it's a feat of vision to see Gus here, but he's not able to get him the ball.
    I don't really think Duvernay is all that open in the near corner of the end zone, but maybe.

    (Good defensive call, skipped early throw, skipped run, throw on the run, uncatchable throw)



    Q1 0:20 - 1&10, CIN 31: Lamar pass incomplete short left. Penalty on Ben Powers: Ineligible Downfield Pass (Declined) . Penalty on Carlos Dunlap: Unnecessary Roughness 15 yards (no play)

    This is a running play all the way. Lamar tosses it forward at the end to avoid getting tackled behind the line.



    Q2 9:30 - 1&15, RAV 45: Lamar pass incomplete short left intended for Gus Edwards (defended by Darius Phillips)

    3-step drop from empty, Gus motions into the slot and then runs out & up, pass rusher jumps and gets tip.


    Bengals lucked out here. What's interesting about this play is how many receivers come open. If Lamar knew that #23 had Dr J's ups, he could have gone to Marquise up top, Andrews in the middle, and Boykin comes open deep. Keep this play.

    (tipped at line, +play by defender)



    Q2 9:26 - 2&15, RAV 45: Lamar pass complete short middle to Mark Andrews for 7 yards (tackle by Akeem Davis-Gaither)

    Technically a seven-yard gain on 2nd-&-15 qualifies as "unsuccessful": it's JUST less than 50% of the yards to go. I don't really have any complaints.


    5-step drop from empty, Lamar takes a hitch or two by design, then a hitch or two waiting for Andrews to come open.





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