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  1. #1
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    Unsuccessful Pass Plays

    Quote Originally Posted by organizedchaos21 View Post
    (you have Game Pass, right?)
    Sigh.



    Lamar's decision-making has become a question mark for me, last couple weeks. I thought it might be informative to review the unsuccessful drop backs from the last few games, see if there's anything that stands out.

    Putting together gifs like I did for the "look at Boykin" thread was way too damn hard, esp for this many plays. But I thought stills from the moment of Lamar's decision would be informative enough; and a helluva lot easier. For plays where Lamar has to move and reset away from pressure, I pulled two pics: moment he has to decide to move, and moment of throw.

    In the pics:

    • Green rectangle is for the target Lamar went to.
    • Orange oval is for other possible targets.
    • Some of the pics have red marks for pressure.

    By the way. I put the pics up on postimages.org, which I've never used before. Let me know if they're not visible or disappear; I'll try to put host them somewhere else.



    Hat tip to OC, for a little gentle pressure to get me to finally pull the trigger on Game Pass for this year.





  2. #2
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    Re: Unsuccessful Pass Plays

    First up is the game against Washington Team Football.



    Q1 5:56 - 2&8, RAV 34: Lamar Jackson pass complete short left to J.K. Dobbins for 1 yard
    Recorded in the play-by-play as a pass, this is a toss. A running play.



    Q1 4:55 - 3&12, RAV 30: Lamar Jackson up the middle for 5 yards
    QB draw all the way.



    Q2 15:00 - 2&9, RAV 41: Lamar pass incomplete deep middle intended for Marquise Brown


    5 step drop out of shotgun with *3* hitches. Lamar is looking DEEEEEEEP.
    The ball is overthrown by like 5 yards. That's Boykin open in the middle of field.



    Q2 14:54 - 3&9, RAV 41: Lamar pass incomplete deep right intended for Miles Boykin


    Note the Skins defender #23 tugging on Boykin's jersey with his left hand. He's already snatched Boykin's towel off his waist band with his right and tossed it away.
    On first glance it might look like Andrews is open at the shield. But there's actually a Skins defender at midfield between the "N" and the "F", almost perfectly camouflaged.
    There's Snead up the left seam, but the single high safety is on his side of the field. Obvious penalty, not called.



    Q2 3:23 - 2&9,WAS 43: Lamar Jackson pass incomplete deep right intended for Devin Duvernay


    Play action fake to Gus, the pic is just before Lamar gets pressure. Looks like he's staring down Duvernay, who he eventually goes to, though not in this window.
    That's Boykin wide open on the comeback at the bottom of the screen.


    Lamar was rolled to the right to escape pressure. Duvernay has done a very nice job of working himself open.
    Snead in the middle and Boykin on the right sideline are options, but Lamar goes to the right guy.
    Duvernay stays kinda flat while Lamar tries to lead him upfield.



    Q2 3:15 - 3&9, WAS 43: Lamar pass incomplete deep left intended for Marquise Brown


    3 step drop and a hitch from empty. Pic is from when Lamar gets first pressure. Snead is open
    [EDIT: way short of the sticks; thanks Ed]
    but Lamar wants Marquise.


    Lamar got knocked into, had to scramble a couple steps to set his feet. The shot to Marquise is there, but bad throw.
    I put a small orange circle on Snead, but honestly Lamar taking off would be a better option than that.



    Q2 02:18 - 1&10, WAS 28: Lamar pass complete short middle to Mark Ingram for 3 yards


    Heavy personnel. I agree with Lamar: where else he gonna go with the ball?
    I put a small circle on Mark Andrews, but woof that would be a tough play between two defenders.



    Q2 02:00 - 2&7, WAS 25: Lamar pass incomplete short right intended for J.K. Dobbins


    Swing pass all the way, w Andrews & Boyle & Boykin out front blocking. Bad throw.
    Marquise plants and comes open on the slant at the 20, top of the screen, if they wanted to fake the swing and hit the slant.
    But I like Dobbins with 3 blockers in front of him for the 3 defenders. This should be a big play.



    Q2 0:42 - 1&10, RAV 23: Lamar pass incomplete deep middle intended for Marquise Brown


    Shot play. 3 steps and 2 hitches from shotgun, throws it deep to Hollywood. Defenders converge with the ball, it's either just off the fingertips or PD.
    Other options? Andrews swims over the DB in the next couple steps, and probably would have made the catch: we've seen him catch stuff far more contested. That deeper safety trying to play both him & Marquise is still back-pedaling. But I think this play was set up for Marquise all the way.

    By the way, that's Boykin at the top of the screen, not doing much with his route. He really stays married to that corner, never forces him out of that side-pedal retreat. Boykin ought to be able to take his back and sprint by, make him turn and run. That would at least set something up for later.



    Q2 0:36 - 2&10, RAV 23: Lamar pass short left intended for Miles Boykin is intercepted by Kendall Fuller at BAL-37 and returned for no gain


    Ya think we've talked about this play enough?

    Pic is mid-delivery of Lamar's throw. Blitzer bearing down on him, Lamar has to get rid of it.
    Top of the screen, Kendall Fuller has already planted his downfield leg to change direction and break on the ball.
    Bottom of the screen, Marquise is running the same (mirrored) route as Boykin, he winds up curling it out at the exact same depth, about the 42 or 43 yard line.
    Andrews is in the area vacated by the blitzer, closest defender 4 yards away and back-pedaling.



    Q3 10:59 - 1&10, WAS 39: Lamar sacked by Tim Settle for -2 yards


    Roll-out. The still is when Lamar faces the first defender. I don't see much of anything for him to go to. Dobbins would get hit as the ball arrived.
    I marked Boyle: wouldn't mind seeing him take advantage of the green and work to open space.


    After Lamar evades the first defender. Boyle has made himself available for a pass. The ball should go there --
    But that's pretty goddam easy for me to say, with two defenders closing on Lamar. The one behind is close enough to maybe knock out the ball if he tries to throw.
    Lamar eats it.



    Q3 10:10 - 2&12, WAS 41: Lamar pass complete short middle to Marquise Brown for 18 yards (tackle by Landon Collins and Kendall Fuller)


    This is a *successful* play, so not properly a part of the set to be looked at here. But it caught my eye.
    Lamar is staring down Marquise, and he gives a little shoulder fake to get the defender #31 to jump the route.
    That's Boykin uncovered on the slant at the top of the screen.


    After the pump fake, the defender has bit hard. Lamar has created a little window to get the ball to Marquise.


    After getting open and NOT getting the ball, Boykin hustles his ass upfield to try to lay a block for Marquise.


    Marquise & Miles vs seven Redskins defenders.


    Foxhole buddies.
    Last edited by JimZipCode; 10-21-2020 at 09:16 AM.





  3. #3
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    Re: Unsuccessful Pass Plays

    More from the game vs WTF:



    Q3 6:32 - 1&15, RAV 28: Lamar pass complete short right to Marquise Brown for 4 yards


    Doesn't it look like Marquise has blockers in front of him? But Ingram & Andrews both whiff: it looks like they're trying to get open, not block.
    Boyle could be available in the middle of the field, maybe after a pump fake.
    That's Duvernay at the bottom of the screen, not getting open on a comeback.



    Q3 5:50 - 2&11, RAV 32: Lamar up the middle for 3 yards


    3 step drop out of Pistol with a weird heel-clicky hitch. This still is as Lamar is in his second step, and it's striking how early Ricard is looking back. I wonder if he thinks he's hot?


    This is after the hitch, Lamar has his feet under him again, but has trouble. The pass rusher at the top of the screen has bent around the corner.
    Marquise's route at the bottom of the screen beats this coverage, but it was a little slow to develop.
    Snead is available.
    Lamar keeps it, squeezes thru the gap between Phillips & Skura for a few.



    Q3 5:04 - 3&8, RAV 35: Lamar left end for 4 yards (tackle by Kevin Pierre-Louis)


    5 step drop and a hitch out of Pistol. Lamar is looking intermediate. I think he wants Andrews on the seam, so I circled him. But the DB starts driving on Andrews as soon as he sticks, so Lamar pulls it down.
    (There's also some weirdness with Snead's route taking him to the exact same spot, which looks wrong.)
    Then Lamar is engulfed and has to split.

    By the way, you want to see a nifty blitz pick-up by the rookie Dobbins? Check this:


    Dobbins was lined up on the OTHER side of Lamar. He came across the formation to pick up this blitzer. Knew EXACTLY what to do.
    Sadly this block proved less effective than it looked. The Washington defender somewhat miraculously landed on his feet, and combined with Phillips' man to flush Lamar.
    Still, this is great recognition and getting to the spot. Dobbins is making himself a 3-down back.



    Q4 10:49 - 2&10, RAV 8: Lamar pass complete short middle to Devin Duvernay for 4 yards (tackle by Landon Collins)


    Lamar boots and rolls right. He hits Duvernay in the middle, but he's got plenty of options.
    Ingram has open space toward the bottom of the screen, and Boykin in the middle of the screen. Both of them are on the move, while Duvernay is standing still.
    By the way, I don't love Hollywood's decision to turn right at the hash, just downfield of Boykin. There's all kinds of open grass if Brown continues across the field.



    Q4 6:03 - 3&12, WAS 38: Lamar complete short middle to Willie Snead for 10 yards (tackle by Landon Collins)


    A *1* step drop from Pistol and lets fly. Everyone's open, but Washington is sitting at the sticks on 3rd-&-11.
    Ravens content to kick the FG.



    Q4 3:37 - 2&17, RAV 5: Robert Griffin pass deep left intended for Marquise Brown is intercepted by Kendall Fuller at BAL-42 and returned for no gain


    RG3 takes 5 steps and a hitch out of shotgun. Marquise doesn't look open in this frame, to me. But he does get Fuller's back and starts to pull past him.
    Griffin gets fucking CREAMED (by Phillips' man) on the release; maybe caused an underthrow?
    Andrews is the safer play, coming out of your own end zone with a 3 TD lead. Unless the coaches wanted him to be aggressive in the few snaps he got??
    Last edited by JimZipCode; 10-21-2020 at 02:56 AM.





  4. #4
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    Re: Unsuccessful Pass Plays

    Next up: Cincy. But not for a couple days. Pulling this together for a game burns an evening.





  5. #5
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    Re: Unsuccessful Pass Plays

    My 2 cents.

    You might want to break the vids up into quotes / spread them out in a few posts.

    It took awhile for the images to load and not all of them are finished loading.

    Also, i thought this was going to be a look at unsuccessful pass plays...but you're including comments and images from bunches of plays.

    I'm certainly interested in discussion tho and i have notes and gifs for some of the plays already.

    One more suggestion if I may....it may be helpful to stop the image when Lamar is at the top of his drop back.
    "Those corners...and those safeties are going to be one-on-one... and we got to make them pay for it," Harbs

    "I think he’d be[Lamar] the greatest player in the history of the game,” Young said





  6. #6
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    Re: Unsuccessful Pass Plays

    Quote Originally Posted by edromeo View Post
    Q2-1500
    Good read, Hollywood open seam
    Overthrown not catchable

    Quote Originally Posted by edromeo View Post
    Q2-1454
    Good read, Miles open vertical
    Overthrown line drive not catchable

    Quote Originally Posted by edromeo View Post
    Q2-3:23
    QB decision (-) read
    Play-action: Dropback (-) Lamar kinda hops around doesn't take a true drop and therefore his feet don't lead him to the Miles open comeback route on the (R) sideline
    Lamar starts his vision (R) turn away from the Miles comeback route w/ 2 yards of separation
    open non-target

    Adlib play-adlib throw-off target pass Duvernay can't adjust but gets a hand on it
    Quote Originally Posted by edromeo View Post
    Last edited by edromeo; 10-21-2020 at 04:32 AM.
    "Those corners...and those safeties are going to be one-on-one... and we got to make them pay for it," Harbs

    "I think he’d be[Lamar] the greatest player in the history of the game,” Young said





  7. #7
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    Re: Unsuccessful Pass Plays

    Q2 3:15 - 3&9
    Wish we had the live gif here.
    On 3rd and 9 i don't want Lamar throwing that far short of the sticks (Snead)
    Bozeman is kinda mushed into Lamar's front porch but I would like to see Lamar stand deliver here
    I can't tell where the stick are but the curl route bottom (R) looks open

    Quote Originally Posted by edromeo View Post


    Love dialing long distance on 1st & 10- we won't start connecting unless we keep trying

    Just off Hollywood's fingertips, would like to see him come down with it, but that ball is on target
    That's about a as good a deep ball as you're gonna get
    Q2 - 42

    Quote Originally Posted by edromeo View Post
    That's good if not great protection in the NFL.
    Q2 - 36
    QB decision (-) Andrews open hitch/stop (R)
    QB Footwork (-) no discernable footwork to take the QB to the throw just a couple of hitch/hop steps
    No rhythm and timing to his dropback which cause the timing to be off and for the throw to come out too early
    QB throw (-)
    Last edited by edromeo; 10-21-2020 at 04:40 AM.
    "Those corners...and those safeties are going to be one-on-one... and we got to make them pay for it," Harbs

    "I think he’d be[Lamar] the greatest player in the history of the game,” Young said





  8. #8
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    Re: Unsuccessful Pass Plays


    Q3 - 10:59
    No one open
    Scheme (-)
    I guess you could try to backshoulder throw to body position on the (R) sideline route



    In the image below Boyle is open and the sideline comeback is open
    QB decision (-) This play shouldn't result in sack at worst a throwaway
    "Those corners...and those safeties are going to be one-on-one... and we got to make them pay for it," Harbs

    "I think he’d be[Lamar] the greatest player in the history of the game,” Young said





  9. #9
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    Re: Unsuccessful Pass Plays


    Miles open non-target Slant
    "Those corners...and those safeties are going to be one-on-one... and we got to make them pay for it," Harbs

    "I think he’d be[Lamar] the greatest player in the history of the game,” Young said





  10. #10

    Re: Unsuccessful Pass Plays

    Quote Originally Posted by edromeo View Post

    Miles open non-target Slant
    So is this just gonna be another platform for you to defend Boykin again





  11. #11
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    Re: Unsuccessful Pass Plays

    Good decision
    Throw affected by iOL being pushed into Griff's front porch

    Quote Originally Posted by edromeo View Post
    Its funny to me how much perception clouds opinion when taking a closer look at some plays.

    I've heard fans jumping all over Griffin, this time for the throw below:


    But, a few things:

    o it was the correct decision, Hollywood beat the CB deep and had separation

    o Phillips gets beat and his man hits Griffin mid throw
    (contrast this to Lamar's interception to Boykin, where people claimed Lamar was under pressure, yet the film shows a clean pocket with ample time and space with a free rusher 3+ yards away....) now this is what under pressure looks like

    o Hollywood had separation but comes back and makes a good adjustment on the ball, gets both hands on it but couldn't haul it in- this is a play a "big time" #1 receiver makes
    "Those corners...and those safeties are going to be one-on-one... and we got to make them pay for it," Harbs

    "I think he’d be[Lamar] the greatest player in the history of the game,” Young said





  12. #12
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    Re: Unsuccessful Pass Plays

    Ravens fans are literally the most spoiled I have ever seen!! Lamar is 23 years old and still hasn't played 2 full seasons as a starting Quarterback. You can't expect him to audible and see everyone open when the line is only giving him barely 2 secs to throw!! Gro calls the plays Lamar executes them. With the exception of Andrews no one knows how to come back to the ball or manipulate the defenders for lanes to be open. The Ravens expect Lamar to he Superman and while he answers the call most of the time he can't do it all the time. Let Lamar grow and learn!! And if we aren't the best team every year and Lamar isn't the MVP every year so be it!!





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