Why vote for Biden

[owknows]

That has what to do with the Laffer Curve?

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Hopefully you realize that a Laffer curve theoretical projection is not exclusively applicable to the federal government, but in fact to any government model.

And California is now experimenting boldly with direct manipulation of that curve with unintended consequences. (i.e. causing the productive and the wealthy to flee).

It's right up there as a top priority for leftist policy in California, alongside shitting in the street, and decriminalizing theft from retail stores.

[jonboy79]

Oh, I understand it. That's why I know we're well on the left side of it and your statement shows you don't have a clue.



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So your understanding indicates that a reduction to a lower tax rate increasing the total annual revenue was not a shift towards a more ideal rate? That the increased revenue was unrelated to the tax cut and as such Revenue would have increased by more had the tax cuts never happened. That is debatable and an uncertain result.

Or do you have another explanation? I find that one reasonable and up for debate, but am curious if you have another point of view.


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[New !]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3Vah8sUFgI&t=551s

[bacchys]

So your understanding indicates that a reduction to a lower tax rate increasing the total annual revenue was not a shift towards a more ideal rate? That the increased revenue was unrelated to the tax cut and as such Revenue would have increased by more had the tax cuts never happened. That is debatable and an uncertain result.

Or do you have another explanation? I find that one reasonable and up for debate, but am curious if you have another point of view.

Reducing the tax rate doesn't ipso facto increase total annual revenue, especially in terms of real dollars. The number of factors involved in the economies precludes ever determining tax cuts as The Reason for economic growth, and the real world numbers point against it. Take, for example, the "Trump tax cuts" that Ryan and McConnell jammed through Congress. GDP growth remained the same. There was a short bump, but it quickly faded. The cuts were also accompanied by significant spending increases, taking the deficit from about $400 billion to $1 trillion. Crediting the tax cuts for the short-lived increase in growth isn't founded. It's wishful thinking.

Economists have debated the Laffer Curve for decades. They were debating it before Laffer drew on his napkin and got his name attached to it. Before Laffer, and after, economists debated the optimal tax rate, which is the rate which collects the most revenue for the government. Optimal in this context has nothing to do with the desirability of such a policy; it's just a mathematical determination of maximum revenue.

Estimates of what this optimal rate are vary, but the mid-point of the estimates is about 70%. Taking the mid-point as correct for the purposes of discussion and illustration, this means any tax rate to the right (less than) 70% could be increased to achieve gains in revenue, while rates higher than 70% won't increase revenue.

In short, whether increasing or decreasing tax rates depends on where the rates were before doing so. As our tax rates are well below 70%, decreasing them doesn't increase revenue. It reduces it. We could increase taxes to increase revenues from our current plot on the Laffer Curve.

Tax revenues haven't gone up in real terms following the Trump tax cuts. They've dropped. Not a lot, but still a decrease in real (constant) dollars.

http://www.crfb.org/blogs/no-tax-rev...x%20cut%20laws.

CBO estimated a .6% increase in revenues, which is offset by the 1.6% inflation we had over the same time period. Revenues needed to increase at the rate of inflation just to keep pace, but failed to do so.

[bacchys]

The basic theory of the Laffer Curve is this: at 0% tax rates the government collects no revenues (for an obvious reason) and at 100% the government collects no revenues (because no one earns taxable income if it's all taken in taxes). Somewhere in between those two points is the optimal tax rate, a rate which maximizes tax revenues. Above the OTR, tax avoidance cuts into any gains, reducing revenues collected. Below the rate, the government is "leaving money on the table," in poker terms. Money they could have collected but didn't because they didn't try.

Taxing at the OTR isn't good policy, imo, but if we're going to demand a large government we should pay for it instead of subsidizing our political choices with a credit card.

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[ddr_jr]

Just to unpack some stuff here...(I isolated the parts that you're really talking about and broke it up into two posts) -

1. Biden should be locked up.

Well, at the very least, he should be investigated, right? I mean, there certainly appears to be more substantial evidence implicating the Bidens were leveraging Joe's VP position during the Obama administration to enrich themselves. If the emails in question are found to be authentic, then there certainly appears to be a connection between Biden's trip to Ukraine, threatening to withhold financial aid, and the firing of that prosecutor who was investigating Burisma. Keep in mind, Burisma was already known as a corrupt organization with ties to some bad people. Some of the emails also indicate a similar situation with China.

I think most Americans believe that corrupt politicians should be investigated, charged, and prosecuted if the evidence supports those actions. Keep in mind that in the last year, we have jailed peaceful protestors (not the "haha" mostly peaceful protestors, but actual protestors), we have jailed business owners that refused to close their business down during the COVID lockdowns, we have jailed lots of people for relatively minor things. Yet, political elite and wealthy elite families in this country like the Bidens, the Clintons, and so on get away with some pretty bad shit. Trump is just saying what everyone else is thinking.

2. Our elections are rigged.

Are they not? At least, in some capacity?

Example 1) Look at how the DNC handled the 2016 primaries. They quite literally went out of their way to make sure Bernie didn't win and Hillary got the nomination. Then again in 2020, they did the same thing to Bernie. The DNC also made sure people like Tulsi Gabbard and Andrew Yang didn't have a fair shot. The DNC (and the RNC, for that matter) is a group of unelected bureaucrats that have far too much power in dictating who gets face-time with the American people during Presidential elections. Is this not indicative of rigging elections?

Example 2) Mail-in Ballots. Everyone has gotten up in arms over mail-in ballots and early voting this Presidential election. I think there was some sincerity with it to try and make sure people could still vote and not feel like they needed to go to a crowded area to vote in person, but we have witnessed numerous regional/local elections that relied on mail-in ballots and they were disasters. To the point where they have been embroiled in court filings and lawsuits because the votes were horribly inaccurate (like 300% of a county's population cast votes...how does that happen?). We've also seen several postal workers fired for tampering with mail-in ballots and tossing boxes of ballots into the trash or on the side of the road. Furthermore, mail-in ballots have to be filled out correctly and mailed in using the specifically instructed and provided envelops. If the ballots aren't in that format, they're tossed out. If the ballots are dirty, wrinkled, torn, or look to be tampered with; they're tossed out.

Example 3) Voter ID. In order to vote, you need to present a valid state-issued photo ID. A lot of politicians and political pundits would have everyone believe this is a request rooted in racism or whatever, but realistically, it is a common sense barrier against potential voter fraud. Getting a state-issued ID card or drivers license is not difficult - especially today when you can practically do the entire application online and just go pick the thing up. You can't do anything in America today without a photo ID. You can't open a bank account, you are often asked to see ID if paying with a credit or debit card, you can't purchase or register a vehicle, you can't get insurance, you can't get on the bus to travel somewhere, you can't fly somewhere (domestically or internationally), you can't buy liquor/alcohol/tobacco, you can't buy a house or rent an apartment, you can't get a job, and so on. I haven't seen any particular statistics on the number of citizens with versus without a drivers license/state ID in any given state, but I would bet that number is pretty minimal. Going back to elections being rigged - the only reason that there is a hubbub about Voter ID Laws is because if those laws don't exist, then the opportunity for illegal immigrants and non-citizens to participate in our elections is greatly increased. And which party is super interested in those things?

Example 4) Minnesota. I dont know if you saw it or not, but about a week ago Project Veritas received video evidence showing an organized and well-funded operation that was taking advantage of Somali immigrants living in Minneapolis. This organization would go around and, for simplicity, pay these immigrants for their signed ballots. Then the organization would fill them out with whatever they wanted and mail them in. This organization has direct ties to Congresswoman Illhan Omar and several other State/Local elections. The immigrants are being bullied into doing this as well as being bribed. Not only does this show how elections can be rigged on a local level, but this is also evidence of felonies that should be investigated, charged, and prosecuted.

3. Our Scientists are Idiots.

I do think that Trump could have conveyed his thoughts a bit better here, but as a society and culture, we have gotten to a point where we revere scientists and medical professionals. We put them on a pedestal and rarely do we question them. Scientists are people too - we need to remember this. They're people with feelings, motives, self-interests, ambitions, and so on. I'm not suggesting that people like Dr. Fauci are morally bankrupt or corrupt, but the messaging that has come from Fauci during COVID has been very inconsistent (wear masks, don't wear masks, we need to stay locked down, not everyone needs to lock down, Trump did everything right, I think we could have done more, and so on). The WHO is another shining example - these people are supposed to be arbiters of public health truth for the entire world and they knowingly suppressed important information and the behest of the Chinese Communist Party.

4. Kidnappings

I am assuming this is referring to the recent attempt against Michigan governor Gretchen Whitmer? These guys aren't Trump supporters. The guy that organized the whole thing put out multiple videos recently with an Anarchy flag hung up on his wall talking poorly about Trump and several others. These guys were militant anarchists, not Republicans. However, logically, I think you could walk this entire situation out a bit and look at the root cause of the kidnapping attempt - it's not because of Trump. It is 100% because Whitmer is a totalitarian/authoritarian personality that has held the entire state of Michigan hostage during this pandemic. Even the state's courts are ruling against her and telling her that her lockdown mandates are unconstitutional and need to be lifted or greatly altered and she's simply giving them (and Michigan residents) the finger.

Other than this instance, can you name other attempts of people trying to kidnap public officials? I can't think of any in recent memory, which also suggests to me that you're being indoctrinated by the mainstream media who are deliberately pinning this on Trump and his "rhetoric" even though there is video and audio evidence showing the perpetrators in this kidnapping attempt are not Trump supports and not Conservative/Republican.

The GOP Senate investigated Biden. They were looking to do damage. It ended in a whimper. Now we have evidence from Rudy G (Trump's right hand man). Just like Benghazi and the Russia investigation...on and on it goes. Just like the Russia investigation, the DOJ and Senate investigations to investigate the investigators have not fulfilled the promises. It's all a game on both sides.

In your election examples, you only mention GOP talking points. Didn't mention things happening on the other side. In either case, getting an advantage during voting has always happened in small doses from each side. Trump paints the broad brush of election corruption as if this was coming from a 3rd world country. The president is telling his country to not trust the results if HE loses. I can't see how folks don't see the bad in that.

It doesn't matter if the kidnappers were Trump supporters or not. It's just the overall climate and temperature of this country. All I'm saying that he is playing a part of raising this temperature by the things he says and types. He is the president and he has a responsibility to surpress his grievances for the greater good of the country. Not poor gasoline on it.

I think we can agree that half of the country feels this way about Trump as stated in my original comment. Half of the country also thinks I'm smoking crack.

50/50 means that I'm not off the planet with my assessment.

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[ddr_jr]

Just to unpack some stuff here...(I isolated the parts that you're really talking about and broke it up into two posts) -

Part 2

5. Dems are Pedophiles

Well, if the Jeffrey Epstein investigation ever comes to light and we hear what Ghislaine Maxwell has to say, we'll probably know for sure that Bill Clinton was pretty interested in underage women. He's a democrat. However, I don't know that Trump has really espoused any accusations about Democrat pedophiles? I guess you are making the connection between the QAnon nonsense and the recent Trump debate with Savannah Guthrie where she asked him to denounce QAnon and he said he didn't know who they were (which I don't believe because he has Tweeted about them in years past).

I don't know that there is some crazy political elite pedophile ring or anything like that, but we know that there are a lot of wealthy-elite people (including Trump) that associated with Jeffrey Epstein and we certainly know that there are a lot of sexually deviant people that were part of or associated with the Democratic Party including Joe Biden, the Clintons, Anthony Weiner, Katie Hill, Harvey Weinstein, and so on. Personally, I'm not willing to say this is a "political party thing" more so than it is a "wealthy elite thing". These people have so much money and so much power that they can get away with some bad shit and never get caught or prosecuted.

6. People taking law in their own hands patrolling the street with long guns.

This isn't a Trump thing. This has everything to do with regular citizens being pissed off that their communities are being ravaged by assholes and politicians and police are just standing by and letting it happen. Minneapolis, Portland, Seattle, Chicago, New York, Atlanta, San Francisco, Los Angeles, and many others. We have the 2nd Amendment for a reason. We have the right to protect ourselves and defend our way of life. Trump supporters aren't the ones calling for getting rid of police departments. Republicans aren't governing cities and states where murder rates and violence have skyrocketed. This is purely a response to politicians turning a blind eye to the chaos that has happened in many of our cities across the country. If those responsible for governing those cities did their damn jobs, much of this would have been nipped in the bud a long time ago. They let it fester. They let it happen. When their citizens said enough and asked them to do something about it, they closed their curtains and pretended not to hear those cries.

Frankly, people are worried man. People are worried that their neighborhoods are going to be attacked and trashed. The response has been loud and clear with first-time gun ownership increasing exponentially across the country, but specifically in states like California, New York, etc. If the police are going to be defunded, who is going to stop violent crime?

7. COVID isn't that bad and it's a plot to end Trump presidency.

I can't speak to whether or not some politicians are using COVID as a way to subvert Trump's re-election, but would it surprise you? They tried to get him for allegedly colluding with Russia to win the 2016 election, which was shown to be false and predicated on fabricated material and corrupt bureaucracies. They tried to impeach Trump for quid pro quo conversations with Ukraine, even though there was very little evidence to do so and several Democrat-leaning experts and politicians said it was a mistake and warned against it. They tried to sabotage Brett Kavanaugh's confirmation by painting him as this monstrous serial rapist. They're hiding Joe Biden for weeks on end with no interviews and when he is doing interviews it is with a teleprompter and agreed upon questions/topics. This is a guy that is clearly not functioning at 100% cognitive ability and they're still rolling with him. Pelosi even started the wheels moving on exercising the 25th Amendment, which is clearly going to be used against Biden thereby making Kamala Harris President - a woman that no one likes or wanted.

Regarding COVID not being "that bad", well statistically, it isn't. The survivability rate (thus far) is more than 99%, which means that less than 1% of people that get COVID will die. This is on par with seasonal flu's fatality rates. A lot of people don't even exhibit symptoms and if they do, it's fever spikes, nausea, coughing, and shortness of breath. I think hindsight is 20/20 and we now know a lot more about COVID and how to treat it. We'll also likely have a vaccine available for mostly everyone by early summer 2021 and maybe sooner. In hindsight, we shouldn't have locked down the entire country. The fact that some states are still locking everything down with an iron fist (California, Michigan, etc) shows that this is more political than public health (Fauci has recently said locking down probably wasn't a good thing and the WHO recently stated that lockdowns weren't effective and did more harm than good).

Strategically, why would Biden flood the airways when Trump hangs himself everyday when he speaks or give a rally? This isn't about Trump's base that he is whipping up, it's about independents and undecided.

I disagree with Biden's cognitive ability. Listening to you guys, I was scared to watch the first debate. I just figured he would be this lost old man. The bar was set so low and he slammed through it. It showed people he isn't as what Trump said. I think it was a poor strategic move by Trump to paint that picture. Of course Trump supporters will still see him as such. But others were refreshed to see that he was normal Joe.

Now I watch him speak and don't have those concerns other than the normal screw ups when he gets excited.

Covid. Well we will just have to disagree with how Trump has handled this. He is all over the place. But we do know it's a major factor for this election. Politically, it's smart of Biden to make the election about it. We all know if there was a Dem I'm office, the GOP is great at lazor focusing on an adminstrations weakness. We have a many of tweets from Trump about what should happen to Obama during his virus outbreaks.



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[mikezpen]

Trump has been his own worst enemy w/some of the things he says.But he also has a passionate following.

The left isn't voting for Biden because they love Biden.They know he's nothing but a shell-a Trojan Horse-from which hordes of leftist extremists will emerge and take the real power.He'll retire w/i 2 years.

[Vlad the lad]

Strategically, why would Biden flood the airways when Trump hangs himself everyday when he speaks or give a rally? This isn't about Trump's base that he is whipping up, it's about independents and undecided.

I disagree with Biden's cognitive ability. Listening to you guys, I was scared to watch the first debate. I just figured he would be this lost old man. The bar was set so low and he slammed through it. It showed people he isn't as what Trump said. I think it was a poor strategic move by Trump to paint that picture. Of course Trump supporters will still see him as such. But others were refreshed to see that he was normal Joe.

Now I watch him speak and don't have those concerns other than the normal screw ups when he gets excited.

Covid. Well we will just have to disagree with how Trump has handled this. He is all over the place. But we do know it's a major factor for this election. Politically, it's smart of Biden to make the election about it. We all know if there was a Dem I'm office, the GOP is great at lazor focusing on an adminstrations weakness. We have a many of tweets from Trump about what should happen to Obama during his virus outbreaks.



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If a dem was in office. And that dem wanted to open the country, but GOP govs wanted to continue to shut things down. No, we would not be blaming the dem for the shut down. Or the collapse.

It’s amazing the left has the balls to do this.

Not so amazing that ignorant liberal voters with TDS, eat it up.

[Vlad the lad]

Does anyone think that the left will accept defeat this time? Or will the left spend the next 4 years trying to overturn another election?

[Laxdad24]

Does anyone think that the left will accept defeat this time? Or will the left spend the next 4 years trying to overturn another election?

Think your boy actually wins this time? Or is he gonna need to buy the EC again?


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[New !]

Does anyone think that the left will accept defeat this time? Or will the left spend the next 4 years trying to overturn another election?

Just curious...if Biden is announced as the president elect on November 4, would you accept the result? Is the winner only legitimate if it’s Trump? Or does Biden lose no matter what in your world. Your post seems to imply that the election results shouldn’t be overturned so I am wondering if that goes for if Biden wins as well.