Mad Dog Wink

[Ravenswintitle]

I don't understand your comment here

they ran that green dog blitz or whatever you call it multiple times. People in the game thread were asking why Judon lined up on the left then did a full circle to rush from right (don't think it ever worked).

But then again, they did everything. 4 man, 5, zone, man, some of all on the same play... they tried it all

[Bhcforlife]

Biggest problem with Wink since he has been our DC to me has been his inability to or unwillingness to alter the blitzing when it's not working. Fortunately it usually works.

I doubt that it would have made any difference Monday, but there has to come a point where after the 3rd or 4th TD that you stop sending guys over and over again when it's clearly not getting home. Especially sending the DBs. We all know a 4 man rush from this team is as effective as a throw to Breshad Perriman, but so is having Judon on Hardman. Just assy coaching from all involved on Monday.

[edromeo]

...But then again, they did everything. 4 man, 5, zone, man, some of all on the same play... they tried it all

It definitely failed on Monday but we'd be just as angry if Mahomes had had all day to throw.

We have some common ground there that the blitzing (quite obviously) failed Monday.

The image in the OP is an example of defensive call that did work.
And it wasn't the only defensive call that worked.
That is what I wanted to explore in the OP.

And it wasn't just a 'one off' play.
The 1st down calls were largely the better calls of the game.

I don't agree with the notion that nothing would work because there were defensive calls that did and that's what i wanted to have conversation on from the OP

...Wink tried everything but he had to pick his poison and he stuck with his tried and true formula because why not? Since the 2019 defensive turnaround what other team has really punished the Ravens for blitzing?

Not sure if rhetorical....i understand why he started off blitzing (although i have always believed the strength witbh this unit is coverage)...but why continue when the blitz wasn't working and coverage was?

I was focusing on this game, so it doesn't really matter if the blitz wasn't getting punished by other teams. KC is the team we have to learn how to beat to win a SB.

[Jfoh]

KC has probably the best passing play designer in the nfl right now in their head coach They use a lot of motion to set up mismatches and use multiple players running one direction with a single receiver running against the grain to create wide open mismatches. It takes a middle lb who does not fall for what their eyes tell them, but instead watch for the trailers. We have two very young rookie lb. it takes time for them to figure things out. In some ways KC used their athleticism against them. Hard to be out of position if you aren’t fast. Their speed and aggression worked against them for once. They will get better.

[GOTA]

It reminded me of how Bill Belichick had to constantly adjust against the Manning Colts offense. Manning would spot trends and completely exploit them. There was stretch where the Colts went 5-1 against the Patriots in the mid 2000s. Once Manning entered his prime he was always 1 step ahead of Belichick's defenses

[Culex]

It reminded me of how Bill Belichick had to constantly adjust against the Manning Colts offense. Manning would spot trends and completely exploit them. There was stretch where the Colts went 5-1 against the Patriots in the mid 2000s. Once Manning entered his prime he was always 1 step ahead of Belichick's defenses

I'd say Belichick overall got the best of him though and Manning was already in his prime in 2003 and 2004.

[Ravenswintitle]

I'd say Belichick overall got the best of him though and Manning was already in his prime in 2003 and 2004.

he gets his shot at Mahomes on Sunday...

[Culex]

he gets his shot at Mahomes on Sunday...

I don't see him having the personnel here

[QtR Nevermore]

Not sure if rhetorical....i understand started why he started off blitzing (although i have always believed the strength witbh this unit is coverage)...but why continue when the blitz wasn't working and coverage was?

Playing coverage worked sometimes but do you really think Mahomes wouldn't have carved it up if given even more time to throw? I just think in that game, with Mahomes playing so well and the Ravens offense playing so badly, Wink was in a bit of a no win situation.

I was focusing on this game, so it doesn't really matter if the blitz wasn't getting punished by other teams. KC is the team we have to learn how to beat to win a SB.

Probably, but short of finding a way to pressure Mahomes with 4, I don't think we can beat them when their offense shows up and ours doesn't, no matter what the defensive scheme is.

Overall I agree with you. Wink blitzed too much but I have faith that he'll learn from it. He's always adapted well previously.

It's the other co-ordinator's ability to learn and adapt that really worries me.

[Purpleglasses]

Our tackling was piss-poor Monday night. Several would-be sacks could've changed the whole dynamic of the game. Then in the run game too many times I see guys on the defense trying to make a splash play and strip the ball only for the running back to get an extra 5-10 yards. I think they really need to put some emphasis on getting the guy down as opposed to looking for a turnover every play. 3-and-outs are good too!

[HotInHere]

...


Probably, but short of finding a way to pressure Mahomes with 4, I don't think we can beat them when their offense shows up and ours doesn't, no matter what the defensive scheme is. ...

Ding ding ding!

This is the problem, and it's not a scheme problem. It's a personnel problem. We don't have guys in our front four (apart from Campbell) who have any consistent history of generating quick pressure. And it's not that we've never tried it. We've watched Judon, for example, for years. He will occasionally beat his man. But more often than not, he will need to be unblocked, or have a blocker put in a pick-your-poison position by a blitz, or he will get a coverage sack.

The Chargers have had success against Mahomes. Why? Because Bosa and Ingram will be in his grill quickly and regularly with no additional help. We just don't have guys who can do that.

I agree that Wink relies on the blitz too much, and that maybe deception all of the time isn't really deceiving anyone. But my belief is that if you rushed four at Mahomes consistently and played coverage behind that, he would have had tons of time to throw and eventually one of his receivers would uncover. Their receivers are too good for even a secondary like ours to blanket them indefinitely. We just don't match up well against the Chiefs.

The only way our team is going to beat that team is by keeping the ball, and putting up sevens on a majority of our possessions. And the defense just needs to be better in the red zone, and turn some of their sevens into threes.

[edromeo]

Ding ding ding!

This is the problem, and it's not a scheme problem. It's a personnel problem. We don't have guys in our front four (apart from Campbell) who have any consistent history of generating quick pressure. And it's not that we've never tried it.

...
I agree that Wink relies on the blitz too much, and that maybe deception all of the time isn't really deceiving anyone. But my belief is that if you rushed four at Mahomes consistently and played coverage behind that, he would have had tons of time to throw and eventually one of his receivers would uncover.

But you guys realize that were times the D got pressure with 4? The image in the OP is literally an example of getting pressure with 4 vs the Chiefs and its not the only time it happened.

One of the problems in my eyes was the off coverage. It was free yardage and that the defense gave and Chiefs took it.
Whether it was man or zone or blitz or no blitz. The off coverage was an issue.

The backend and the frontend of the defense have to work together.


I want to see something done right and fail before I say that it doesn't work.

o Rush with the right 4 guys. In my eyes that's a fresh Campbell, Wolfe/Jihad Ward/P. McPhee (Madubuike), Judon and Bowser

o When you rush 4 be disciplined, edge rusher can jump inside and give up contain

o Play up on the receivers....don't concede yards playing off coverage and it would be nice to press and physical w the receivers

Everyone keeps repeating the mantra that the defense couldn't get home with 4 but I would bet that vs the Chiefs by percentage there were more favorable pressuse and stop outcomes with 4 man pressure then with the blitz.