Is Lamar Jackson elite?

**Culex** · 09-19-2020, 10:22 AM

Originally Posted by BcRaven

Cool, can't blame him for a dropped pass and a missed FG that would've taken us to the Super Bowl in 2011/12... Bc
P.S. - sorry to bring that ugly subject up again

I believe they were referring to 08,09, and 10.

**BcRaven** · 09-19-2020, 10:30 AM

Originally Posted by Culex

I believe they were referring to 08,09, and 10.

Yes, I know that, but you can't just take a slice of his (Flacco) early years without seeing what he did subsequently. I am among the Ravens fans disappointed at his post-Super Bowl career, but let us keep mindful that Joe almost had us in back-to-back Super Bowls, and for that I am grateful... Bc

**Ovechkin8** · 09-19-2020, 10:41 AM

It really is funny watching gambling "experts" and radio and tv loudmouths week after week after week talk themselves into betting against Lamar only to have it blow up in their idiotic faces. This week we have Steelers Homer Screaming A going with the look ahead theory(odd for team with 13 straight wins) and others with the home field no fans advantage theory (Cousin Sal FS1), to the due theory of many on radio.

**Ovechkin8** · 09-19-2020, 10:43 AM

I think the point is we won playoff games in spite of Joe his first three years and we are losing playoff games not because of Lamar. 7 drops with 2 being TD's and getting hammered in the trenches by Tenn yet it's Lamar's fault

**Desert Raven** · 09-19-2020, 12:05 PM

Originally Posted by Ovechkin8

I think the point is we won playoff games in spite of Joe his first three years and we are losing playoff games not because of Lamar. 7 drops with 2 being TD's and getting hammered in the trenches by Tenn yet it's Lamar's fault

2010 @KC Flacco had a really good game

**JimZipCode** · 09-19-2020, 12:53 PM

Originally Posted by Desert Raven

2010 @KC Flacco had a really good game

Yeah. That was really the start of Joe playing well in the postseason. I was focusing on his first two years in my prior, criticizing post. From year 3 onwards, Joe was quite good in the postseason.
(Stats weren't great against Pittsburgh in the '10 postseason, but Joe was victimized by drops.)

**PTORaven** · 09-20-2020, 11:56 AM

Originally Posted by Desert Raven

2010 @KC Flacco had a really good game

oh man, the Terrence Cody bellyflop game

**Desert Raven** · 09-20-2020, 12:05 PM

Originally Posted by PTORaven

oh man, the Terrence Cody bellyflop game

Funny, that’s exactly how I remember that game also.

**tnsmith90** · 09-20-2020, 01:45 PM

Originally Posted by Waywatcher

This is where I am. I'm at the point where Mahomes and Lamar are 1a and 1b for me. And I can't definitively say Lamar wouldn't run away with it if given the same offensive tools as KC (this isn't an indictment of our offensive talent, mind you - just that KC has the edge along the line and at every skill position at present).

Russell Wilson is great but he's reached his apex (and, in fact, may be argued to be entering the downswing of his career). Mahomes and Lamar are still maxing out their talents, which is a thrilling prospect for a fan of either team.

I agree completely. I even got into an argument last night that Lamar was the best in the league, and I was looked at like a crazy person for suggesting it maybe wasn't Mahomes.

I love Mahomes. I had him rated higher than any QB prospect in recent drafts. I always thought he would be incredible, and he can do things no other QB can do...but, so can Lamar. Lamar doesn't have the same arm talent, but he is a more cerebral QB, and a far more athletic one on top of it. By the end of the season Lamar will have everyone thinking those two are 1A & 1B as well.

**RevBarnes** · 09-20-2020, 01:51 PM

Originally Posted by tnsmith90

I agree completely. I even got into an argument last night that Lamar was the best in the league, and I was looked at like a crazy person for suggesting it maybe wasn't Mahomes.

I love Mahomes. I had him rated higher than any QB prospect in recent drafts. I always thought he would be incredible, and he can do things no other QB can do...but, so can Lamar. Lamar doesn't have the same arm talent, but he is a more cerebral QB, and a far more athletic one on top of it. By the end of the season Lamar will have everyone thinking those two are 1A & 1B as well.

Serious question. I buy into Lamar being a cerebral QB with a great football memory. What signs do you see however, that Mahomes doesn't match him in this regard? I would like to hear your thoughts.

**tnsmith90** · 09-20-2020, 01:56 PM

Originally Posted by RevBarnes

Serious question. I buy into Lamar being a cerebral QB with a great football memory. What signs do you see however, that Mahomes doesn't match him in this regard? I would like to hear your thoughts.

I think Mahomes is also a very cerebral QB that can read defenses well. I just think he is less so than Lamar. Mahomes will actually often make questionable decisions, but gets bailed out by his ridiculous arm talent. This was always his biggest criticism. Lamar on the other hand, is a guy that usually patiently goes through his reads, and finds the open man. It's just my opinion, but I think Lamar's mental part of the game is up there with some of the best we have ever seen.

**JimZipCode** · 09-20-2020, 02:15 PM

Originally Posted by tnsmith90

Mahomes will actually often make questionable decisions, but gets bailed out by his ridiculous arm talent. This was always his biggest criticism.

My own argument that Lamar > Mahomes has nothing to do with any deficiency in Mahomes decision-making. It's simpler. Lamar brings most of what Mahomes brings as a passer, and adds this whole other dimension in the run game, that Mahomes simply doesn't have.

In other words, I've never taken the position that Lamar is better than Mahomes in passing only. It isn't necessary for arguing that Lamar does more for his team overall. And, y'know, its a heavy lift. Mahomes is pretty good.