How did Phillips play at RG?

[JimZipCode]

The Ravens have a lot of low sparq college all americans. In general, I'd say high floor, low ceiling. If they're college all americans, that's high floor. There haven't been OLs going out there and doing bad. But if they're low sparq, I'd have to think that they're not going to go out there and be physically dominant. The Ravens do have a few OLs who are in the bottom 10% sparq. None are in the upper half. Which obviously doesn't prevent great play, see Stanley. I'm guessing that the Ravens concluded that if they can identify players who are good at playing OL, and all american is a big clue, they don't really need to have the best athletes in that spot. I'm guessing that those lower sparq all americans are technically sound, smart and competent, all those things allowing them to play a number of positions without being terrible and causing problems.

That's a REALLY interesting observation.

It might point out a draft & cap strategy. Joe D is coaches consistent sound technique. The guys aren't maulers, but they play cohesive sound football. The Ravens draft 'em cheap, and don't have to pay them a lot of money (except probably Stanley). They get solid top-ten OL play without mortgaging their cap and without using their top picks (except Stanley).

Market inefficiency! Cool.

[QtR Nevermore]

Arm Length

31 1/8" Ben Bredeson - this is 1st percentile.
31 1/4" Bradley Bozeman
31 5/8" Patrick Mekari
33 3/4" Ben Powers - this is about average
35 1/8" Tyre Phillips
35 1/4" Matt Skura - this is 97th percentile.

The first three have an easier time dealing with their T-Rex arms at C. Bozeman is doing an admirable job overcoming that, but the team can improve two positions on the OL by getting a better LG. That, or Skura returns to form.

Is the importance of arm length overstated with O Line? Players like Yanda and Joe Thomas had short arms and will be Hall of Famers. Is it one of those things like QB height that scouts think is important until it turns out that it isn't?

If both players were equally fast, standing squared up and starting at the exact same moment, like gunfighters, I can see a case where the longer arms would win but in an actual game angles, footwork and knowing the snap count can all mitigate that. We're only talking about a couple of inches difference anyway.

Another thing is that weightlifters etc tend to have short arms and generate more power. Yanda might not reach you from so far away but when he does, it's with power.

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[Jam31]

Is the importance of arm length overstated with O Line? Players like Yanda and Joe Thomas had short arms and will be Hall of Famers. Is it one of those things like QB height that scouts think is important until it turns out that it isn't?

If both players were equally fast, standing squared up and starting at the exact same moment, like gunfighters, I can see a case where the longer arms would win but in an actual game angles, footwork and knowing the snap count can all mitigate that. We're only talking about a couple of inches difference anyway.

Another thing is that weightlifters etc tend to have short arms and generate more power. Yanda might not reach you from so far away but when he does, it's with power.

I agree. I think arm length is overstated. I love FilmStudy (Ken M.) but he is obsessed with arm length. It reminds me of years ago when every NBA draft Jay Bilas would yammer on about wingspan. "He's 6'5 but he PLAYSSSS like he's 7 foot 1." The whole point, is no bro, he's 6'5" :)

So while I don't discount the role long arms can play to the benefit of someone like Calais Campbell, and it may be preferable to some degree. I don't think you can't draft guys with short arms because they're limited. I think, as JZC says above, the Ravens identify an market efficiency knowing full well that we can coach em up.

[Raveninwoodlawn]

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Great stuff brother!

[GreatWhiteNorthRaven]

Great stuff brother!

Thanks man! My first attempt at film ONLY.

Trying to just learn and get better.

[John Reglarperson]

That's a REALLY interesting observation.

It might point out a draft & cap strategy. Joe D is coaches consistent sound technique. The guys aren't maulers, but they play cohesive sound football. The Ravens draft 'em cheap, and don't have to pay them a lot of money (except probably Stanley). They get solid top-ten OL play without mortgaging their cap and without using their top picks (except Stanley).

Market inefficiency! Cool.

I'm not really sure that what they're doing, bringing in plug and play guys who aren't maulers - or really fast, or really having any physical attribute that's going to let them dominate, is best. Generally people, me included, have a pro or con thesis and then make their case. The Ravens have LG and C spots, and have 4 all americans competing for those 2 spots, and those 4 guys - actually 5, only 4 are all americans. Skura (aa), Bozeman (aa), Powers (aa), Bredesen (aa), Mekari (not aa). All 5 seem to be pretty interchangeable. The Ravens aren't exactly swinging for the fences here. Again, all 5 are below average sparq. The OL coach is good, the players that are brought in are mid round picks, the final result is a quality OL without much in the way of effort or cost. But look at LG, specifically. The LG is a Center, there are 2 - Powers and Bredeson - who aren't playing and aren't really likely to play this year. If, for some reason, it was Powers or Bredeson starting at LG, I would guess that they'd end up doing pretty well, not stinking it up, but also not being awesome. So, next year, the Ravens could spend a 4th round pick on an AA LG again, and I would guess that the Ravens would get that right, the guy they get would be low sparq, high competence, and can block from a 3 point stance. But, really, is that what is ideal? The cupboard is full of competent players, but they don't have the high ceiling. I would think that, maybe, the OL room should contain a project or 2. a high sparq guy who might or might not develop the actual blocking skills which, combined with the athleticism, would push him up to a PFF in the 70s or 80s. I'm not suggesting that there is a problem anywhere, but I'm not sure exactly why a full cupboard of AA Left Guards who are generally similar, generally pro ready but not amazing is really that necessary. They're protected in case of injury, certainly, but you're seeing a lot of PFF numbers in the 65 range. I dunno, it's not really all that easy to explain, and what they're doing is not wrong. I guess another way to put it is, why draft only pro ready players when you aren't planning on using those players the first year or even the 2nd year? If you're going to give the draft pick at least a year to develop, why not a high sparq project, who will get better in their first year when they're not playing? And I'm not saying to do a whole bunch of that, but to add one, and maybe a udfa who is on practice squad. Maybe a LG who has a crazy good 10 split, 3 cone and shuttle. Maybe a RG who is massive, with great jumps and bench and a solid 3 cone, shuttle and 10 split. You know the general types. The Jets are paying George Fant $10 Million a year, the Seahawks got him as a udfa back in 2016. Again, not suggesting there is a problem, the Ravens can do a wide variety of different things and go to the playoffs without really breaking much of a sweat.

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A great start Cole! Unlike Tyre, I think your ceiling is higher, Marshal Yanda, Jr.

[RevBarnes]

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Thanks for the work

[Jam31]

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Excellent job, Cole! Clear examples of strengths & weaknesses & ends on a high note. What's not to like about both the analysis & our young starting RG?

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[GreatWhiteNorthRaven]

Thanks guys!

[WNCRavensFan]

I agree. I think arm length is overstated. I love FilmStudy (Ken M.) but he is obsessed with arm length. It reminds me of years ago when every NBA draft Jay Bilas would yammer on about wingspan. "He's 6'5 but he PLAYSSSS like he's 7 foot 1." The whole point, is no bro, he's 6'5" :)

So while I don't discount the role long arms can play to the benefit of someone like Calais Campbell, and it may be preferable to some degree. I don't think you can't draft guys with short arms because they're limited. I think, as JZC says above, the Ravens identify an market efficiency knowing full well that we can coach em up.

That's the real goal of analytics. Finding market inefficiencies. Arm length is not much different than height, 40 time, bench reps, what have you - there is a correlation but it's not exact. Most small players (height/weight) don't make it at, say, LB if they're not fast enough (and that's the thing - speed for how much mass you have). But special players do buck the trend. The Ravens may have identified an inefficiency.

Great example of this to me is drafting running backs. I agree that paying RBs top dollar is a mistake, and drafting them in Rd 1 is iffy (because of that extra option year), but football analytics people would have you believe you should wait until Rd 6 or UDFA to get your RBs. Meanwhile, JK Dobbins falls through to the end of Rd 2 where the Ravens said "thank you very much". Rd 2/3 RBs can be tremendous value and recent history proves that.