Police training inadequate

**BearArms** · 09-10-2020, 12:47 AM

They should have martial arts training weekly. There are joint locks, wrist locks etc... Akido (Steven Seagul) for example would be perfect cross trained with others.

**darb72** · 09-10-2020, 01:14 AM

Originally Posted by bacchys

I don't think it's primarily a race problem, but we still have the legacy of white supremacy in our institutions and race is a factor in police misconduct issues. The numbers wouldn't be what they are if it weren't. That's a very different thing than saying cops- especially any individual cop- is a racist.

Further, the problem isn't cops. Cops are people. They're good, bad, and some of both in different degrees. Bad cops can do good things and good cops can do bad things. Just like everyone else. Some people who sell drugs or commit murder are kind to children and puppies. They're good people in some aspects of their lives and not good in others. Stress impacts how people act, too. I've watched good Soldiers turn into shitbags over getting bad news from home. They weren't always shitbags and somehow hiding it.

The problem is the institutions. Just like the Catholic Church covered up pedophile priests to protect the institution, police agencies cover for cops who commit some kinds of misconduct. Others are condoned by prosecutors and judges. The public also shrugs at cops who commit certain kinds of misconduct, especially unlawfully detaining and searching people. In many cases I don't even think those involved or observing it recognize it as wrong. The incentives bend towards covering it up, not correcting it or getting rid of it.

One example of this not-seeing-it-as-wrong is Elijah McClain. He's a young man killed by Aurora, CO police. He had a health condition and often wore a ski mask even in summer. Someone called the police because he looked "suspicious" and two officers were dispatched to investigate. They saw him walking down a sidewalk and initiated a stop. He was listening to music with ear buds and didn't respond to their calls to stop, so they physically took him down. He eventually died from their efforts to restrain him. A prosecutor decided all of their actions were justified, but he's wrong. They didn't have sufficient information to have reasonable suspicion. Being suspicious isn't a criminal act. Acting strangely isn't a criminal act. In Terry v. Ohio the Supreme Court said police may briefly detain someone for investigative purposes if they have reasonable suspicion, defined by the Terry Court as articulable facts which would lead a reasonable person to believe crime is afoot. The courts have repeatedly said the totality of the circumstances apply, and they've suppressed evidence in cases where the "suspicious" activity wasn't bolstered by other articulable facts which suggested criminal activity. Had McClain been walking into a convenience store wearing a ski mask, or following someone, the totality of the circumstances might well have provided reasonable suspicion. Walking by himself down a sidewalk, however, doesn't. So the initial stop was unlawful. The use of force to affect the unlawful stop was therefore unlawful. Very often in these situations even when the courts decide the police conduct was unlawful, however, they excuse it. They basically say the mistake of law or fact was "reasonable" and we can't expect cops to perfectly know everything. This might well be reasonable both as a matter of law and policy, but it shouldn't be the end of the process. It usually is. When police make mistakes there need to be corrections. There needs to be discipline. Especially when those mistakes cost someone his life.

I don't much care if some people think it's all about race. If we get good reforms out of it, it'll correct the problem even if they're wrong about what the problem actually is.

The numbers do not bear out racism in police work. They flat out do not.

Elijah McClain's death is a tragedy and something we nee to look at, and Colorado is doing so. https://sentinelcolorado.com/news/me...ijah-mcclains/
Dangerous narcotics should most assuredly not be used in law enforcement. Aside from the legal implications there are far to many variables to consider when administering drugs.

**LittleG** · 09-10-2020, 03:25 AM

I started this thread, as it’s something we can all agree on. There are always going to be bad cops among the many many many good ones. I feel for them. Everyday they go to work not knowing If they are coming home. Their wives/husbands/kids kiss them goodbye and don’t know IF they will see them again.

IMO Neither major party is proposing adequate police training.

This isn’t partisan, it’s logic.

Better training = fewer shootings when not required; hopefully = no riots

**bandc** · 09-10-2020, 12:05 PM

Originally Posted by darb72

The numbers do not bear out racism in police work. They flat out do not.

Elijah McClain's death is a tragedy and something we nee to look at, and Colorado is doing so. https://sentinelcolorado.com/news/me...ijah-mcclains/
Dangerous narcotics should most assuredly not be used in law enforcement. Aside from the legal implications there are far to many variables to consider when administering drugs.

The numbers are flat out wrong as well, but continue to ignore that