DeShon Elliott vs Earl Thomas

**edromeo** · 09-01-2020, 07:45 PM

What are your expectation of DeShon Elliott?

Are your expectations for him linked to your perception of Earl Thomas 2019 level of play?

Does DeShon need a better 2020 then Earl?

For me DeShon Elliott is not a player that can be mentioned on the same level as Earl Thomas on the field.
But, maybe for this Ravens defense and this Ravens team Elliott is a close enough approximation to Earl’s level of performance. And the difference between them on the field isn't worth the cost to both the locker room and against the cap (especially if FO can recoup Earl's monies).

What Elliott lacks in pedigree he must make up with his scheme knowledge and chemistry w/ Chuck.

Is there a bar or level of expectation that you are going to judge Elliott's play?

For me DeShon Elliott has should be very close or better then:

PFF: 76 overall
55.1 run defense
66.5 rush
84.7 coverage

Raw:
15 starts
49 tackles
2 Ints
4 PD
1 FF
1 FR
3 penalties - 35 yards

**PTORaven** · 09-01-2020, 07:55 PM

i think they blitz a lot and need a free safety to be in position on those blitzes. i don't really think this scheme in particular can be easily evaluated by individual stats, at least on the backend. and as has been noted on here elsewhere (and basically beaten to death at this point), it's tough to do individual defensive stats anyway when it isn't always clear what a player's assignment is. so my measuring stick for Deshon Elliott, based on how much talent surrounds him on this D, is whether or not we give up long touchdowns on blitzes, and basically the eye test on how good of a tackler he is and the angles he takes, and if his feel for where to go seems to get better as the season progresses. i don't think they need that much out of the FS position to be honest, which is why they could cut ET in the first place, they just need someone to be in the right assignment, make the right read, that sort of thing.

**edromeo** · 09-01-2020, 08:03 PM

Originally Posted by PTORaven

i think they blitz a lot and need a free safety to be in position on those blitzes. i don't really think this scheme in particular can be easily evaluated by individual stats, at least on the backend. and as has been noted on here elsewhere (and basically beaten to death at this point), it's tough to do individual defensive stats anyway when it isn't always clear what a player's assignment is. so my measuring stick for Deshon Elliott, based on how much talent surrounds him on this D, is whether or not we give up long touchdowns on blitzes, and basically the eye test on how good of a tackler he is and the angles he takes, and if his feel for where to go seems to get better as the season progresses. i don't think they need that much out of the FS position to be honest, which is why they could cut ET in the first place, they just need someone to be in the right assignment, make the right read, that sort of thing.

Let's agree that there are difficulties in quantifying Safety play with stats. But do you think PFF would grade DeShon differently then Earl? Or any one player differently then another?

You mentioned this defense called for Earl to blitz alot....grading blitz/pressure success is more straight forward then coverage grades.

I think if the grades are off they will be off equally for every S.

But, i digress, are there any stats you will look at as measure of DeShon's play?

**GreatWhiteNorthRaven** · 09-01-2020, 08:11 PM

Hard to take PFF grades too seriously on such a small sample size.

I'm nto a fan of the grading as it is.

I do think Deshon is going to greatly benefit from Wink though. I have nothing confidence he'll be put in a position to be successful.

**Unibomber** · 09-01-2020, 08:15 PM

Not really. I don't expect him to exceed Earl's level of play. Doesn't have to. If he can a. stay healthy and b. not be a liability that is all we need given the talent we have in the secondary. I think he has the ability to do that and more.

**edromeo** · 09-01-2020, 08:19 PM

Originally Posted by GreatWhiteNorthRaven

Hard to take PFF grades too seriously on such a small sample size.

Which/what small sample size are you referring to here?

And the stats don't have to be PFF it could be counting stats like games started or tackles or sacks or passes defensed...etc

I'm curious how people are going to judge DeShon's play?

What are there levels of expectation?

I do think Deshon is going to greatly benefit from Wink though. I have nothing confidence he'll be put in a position to be successful.

Agreed.

**Doctor** · 09-01-2020, 08:42 PM

If Elliott stays healthy and plays even adequately, we'll be fine.

I expect more, but that's all we need.

**ReedInTheWind** · 09-01-2020, 08:45 PM

DeShon is definitely a more aggressive player than what we saw of Earl last season. I could see him blitzing a lot and having success, more so than Earl did last year.

I think Chuck probably prefers him back there cause he sticks with where he’s supposed to be when Chuck is directing. Unlike Earl who would gamble and freelance occasionally, cause that’s what he always did, and was...for the most part, very successful at that.

I’d be much higher on DeShon if it wasn’t for the injury history. I think he’ll have a similar season to Earl in terms of production, but no probowl nod. He’s gonna get tested early and often.

**Ravensblitzkrieg** · 09-01-2020, 09:00 PM

In zone coverage I don’t think he will be as good as earl. But wink does a lot of blitzes, even cover 0. I’m assuming he will be playing some man as well in winks scheme.

I think he will be far better then Thomas at blitzing. Thomas was always a step to slow to get to the qb.

**Tengu_Flock** · 09-01-2020, 09:23 PM

Originally Posted by Ravensblitzkrieg

In zone coverage I don’t think he will be as good as earl. But wink does a lot of blitzes, even cover 0. I’m assuming he will be playing some man as well in winks scheme.

I think he will be far better then Thomas at blitzing. Thomas was always a step to slow to get to the qb.

**PTORaven** · 09-01-2020, 09:51 PM

Originally Posted by edromeo

You mentioned this defense called for Earl to blitz alot....

actually what i was saying is that THE TEAM blitzes a lot, and on blitzes you really need a FS you can count on to be in position. the blitz is a calculated risk to get to the QB while leaving you exposed elsewhere, and (to the best of my FB knowledge, maybe someone more knowledgeable can correct me) it is very planned out on the back end. from the little bit we could gather about the teams' on-field issues with ET, it sounded like he was out of position more than they liked, and so really i'm speculating (based on them being the highest % blitzing team of the last decade in 2019) that it was particularly him being out of position on blitzes that killed them.

so that was my take on them ousting ET. what they're trying to do is complicated and requires the secondary to work well together. for whatever reason he wasn't doing his assignments. possibly he wasn't putting in the work to learn his assignments. what the team needed more than a 7-time pro bowler was a FS that played where he's supposed to. it's not the sum of the individual talent that matters. a slightly less talented team that works together better can be more valuable than a more talented team. happens all the time in college basketball. a team that might send two or three of its players to NBA Europe beats a team of one-and-done first-rounders by playing sound fundamental basketball as a team.

**AQKingRaven** · 09-01-2020, 11:21 PM

Elliott is younger, faster, stronger, hits harder, well liked, a draft pick and cheap. He will be a noticably more athletic player than current year ET. Impossible to predict how he will handle it with so little available info imo. I thought Earl played well enough for the Ravens and fixed the issue they brought him to stop however was expecting a huge drop off this year as its been clear for months he had checked out/DGAF and the effort and focus would suffer. He was going to be bad this year Ravens got this footbaal thing figured out.