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  1. #49
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    Re: Stacked and Pissed

    Quote Originally Posted by Purplenemesis View Post
    To me that was a symptom of the problem; they had literally no plan B if if Andrews and Ingram were still too hurt to be effective. They panicked told Lamar to play hero ball while on the other side their defense was getting run over by Derrick Henry.

    I still don't understand how they didn't have Gus Edwards and Hurst ready to fill in in case Ingram and Andrews weren't ready to go. Gus was literally the starting back the year prior and they still had a good rushing attack. If the Titans would have rendered Edwards ineffective I would have at least been cool with them trying.
    Two words: Misplaced Truss.

    The one thing about Lamar that bothers me is the nagging suspicion that he plays favorites. It's more than just preferring to throw to Hollywood or Mandrews & hand the ball off to Ingram.

    After Ingram got hurt, I expected the team to spend the next 3 weeks (Wk 17 vs PGH, bye week plus practice) preparing for the Black Swan event that neither one would be available for the divisional round. An important part of that would be to implement (if necessary) and flip the frequency of plays in practice so that the majority had (say) HH as the #1 TE read and/or Gus the primary RB, so that #8 would be comfortable with those options. Heck, I would even have had Lamar active for the Squealers & running a couple of series with exactly those sets.

    Upon further review, I realized that it really doesn't matter who's the primary RB or TE or WR when the QB's "truss" is, shall we say, less than wholehearted. If you treat one receiver as "wide open" when he can "climb the ladder" between 2 or 3 defenders, but another as "covered" if there's a bad guy within 2 yards of him, you're going to check down to the climber 9 times out of 10. Similarly with a RB you "truss" less you are more likely to pull the ball back & take off, no matter what the situation or play design indicates.

    (NB I have no evidence - but I wouldn't be at all surprised if Lamar played favorites at Louisville or even in HS. He might've had only 1 or 2 top-caliber receiving or running options, & that would be the most natural thing in the world.)

    I'd have hoped Harbaugh right after the Bills game would've called in Lamar & Roman & his staff & said something like
    We all hope Mark & Mark are ready for the divisional round game. I want to be prepared to win that game if they aren't, even if we catch a couple of bad breaks & have to play from behind.

    Greg, you are going to put together a game plan with Hayden as the #1 TE & Gus as the #1 RB will be Gus. Lamar, you are going to practice those plays & build up as much "truss" as possible with those guys. I know you love your Marks, and so do I - but guys like #81 and #35 are NFL-caliber football players too, and I want all of us to be ready to showcase them if need be.
    And I would've said to Roman privately,
    How likely is it that Cleveland is seriously interested in hiring you? Versus mostly hoping to screw around with our preparation? Think about it. I know you'll put your best effort where it belongs right now.
    --Fast forward to the AB brouhaha:

    The biggest problem I have with this is that Lamar wants the Crows to sign him. I have no issue with building the offense around #8 and his generational talent, and actively soliciting his input as to whose playing style appeals to him - but that's quite a different matter from allowing him to determine who they sign. If the Ravens allow the offense to split into an LJ Inner Circle & a supporting cast(e) of spear-carriers, that won't be healthy in the short- or long-term - & if they don't, and that's what he wants, he might very well be lured away come contract time to a franchise happy to accommodate him.
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  2. #50

    Re: Stacked and Pissed

    Good points Loba, where the heck have you been? Since you like blocking things, can you block my teenage daughter and her friends from bringing in microscopic malevolent organisms?

    About your post, one thing I noticed rewatching the games was just how efficient and effective Gus is. Seemed like chunk yardage constantly. I don't understand how the coaches didn't give him RB1 priority like you said.

    I do think the tendencies of Lamar have and will be addressed from EDC down. He's not as passive or patient as Ozzy, and the picks of Dobbins, Duvernay and Proche show me clesrly that the team doesn't ever want to be shorthanded with weapons again. Lamar wants to win and improvement is in his DNA. He knows. He's seen the tape, and I strongly believe he'll make a pointed effort in developing a relationship with everyone. Human nature dictates favorites, but I think he learned his lesson.

    Harbs is the problem. You are dead on about "his" favorites, although hanging on to mediocre or non performing players isn't what it was a few years ago. I hope Harbs is in agreement with not making the same mistake again. I just don't get the Gus underutilization when the man gets the job done, over and over again





  3. #51

    Re: Stacked and Pissed

    I thought Ingram should have been held out that week almost regardless. He wasn't going to be anywhere near 100% by all accounts. We have Gus there for a reason.





  4. #52
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    Re: Stacked and Pissed

    Quote Originally Posted by lobachevsky View Post
    Two words: Misplaced Truss.

    The one thing about Lamar that bothers me is the nagging suspicion that he plays favorites. It's more than just preferring to throw to Hollywood or Mandrews & hand the ball off to Ingram.
    I think nearly every QB plays favorites. Maybe not Brady on the field but he does so off the field to make sure "his guys" are on the team.





  5. #53
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    Re: Stacked and Pissed

    Quote Originally Posted by G54377 View Post
    I thought Ingram should have been held out that week almost regardless. He wasn't going to be anywhere near 100% by all accounts. We have Gus there for a reason.
    Totally agree about Gus. That playoff game was the reason I wasn’t upset when the Ravens traded Hurst. If they weren’t going to use him even when Andrews was obviously injured and ineffective, then don’t waste Hurst’s career by keeping him with the team.


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  6. #54
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    Re: Stacked and Pissed

    Quote Originally Posted by lobachevsky View Post
    The one thing about Lamar that bothers me is the nagging suspicion that he plays favorites. It's more than just preferring to throw to Hollywood or Mandrews & hand the ball off to Ingram.
    ...
    If you treat one receiver as "wide open" when he can "climb the ladder" between 2 or 3 defenders, but another as "covered" if there's a bad guy within 2 yards of him, you're going to check down to the climber 9 times out of 10. Similarly with a RB you "truss" less you are more likely to pull the ball back & take off, no matter what the situation or play design indicates.

    (NB I have no evidence - but I wouldn't be at all surprised if Lamar played favorites at Louisville or even in HS. He might've had only 1 or 2 top-caliber receiving or running options, & that would be the most natural thing in the world.)
    Quote Originally Posted by BearArms View Post
    I do think the tendencies of Lamar have and will be addressed from EDC down. ... the picks of Dobbins, Duvernay and Proche show me clesrly that the team doesn't ever want to be shorthanded with weapons again. Lamar wants to win and improvement is in his DNA. He knows. He's seen the tape, and I strongly believe he'll make a pointed effort ...
    Quote Originally Posted by WNCRavensFan View Post
    I think nearly every QB plays favorites. Maybe not Brady on the field but he does so off the field to make sure "his guys" are on the team.
    Check out this sweet excerpt from the Sports Illustrated cover story by Jenny Vrentas:


    Lamar Jackson: Quarterback, Redefined
    by Jenny Vrentas · 8/11/2020
    https://www.si.com/nfl/2020/08/11/la...reetreport.com
    It wasn’t that the game plan that dominated opponents all season failed; instead, the Ravens ditched it once they fell behind 14–0, passing almost three times as often as they ran. Harris thought his pupil was, subconsciously, trying too hard to be the MVP in his desire to salvage the game, and the season, for his teammates and the city. Jackson moved the offense—Baltimore’s 530 yards were the most in a playoff game over the past two postseasons—but two failed fourth-and-1 conversions (after going 8-for-8 during a 14-win regular season) and three turnovers kept the Ravens from putting up points.

    Even before this year’s offseason program went virtual, Jackson was engrossing himself in film study. His Ravens coaches have praised his uncanny field vision, but he set out to amplify that by dissecting coverage disguises and quizzing himself on where he should go with the ball when he sees certain shifts and blitzes. “As he calls it, getting his Tom Brady on,” Harris says. In early June, Jackson gathered teammates in Fort Lauderdale, Fla.—before the NFLPA had advised against such practices—for a few days of group work, refining his deep balls and throws outside the numbers. Harris noticed that Jackson had a tendency last year to spring up on his toes, causing him to pass with too much arm and lose velocity—an issue that especially showed up on those outside-the-numbers throws. They worked on keeping his cleats on the ground, forcing him to use his lower body and generate the necessary power on those more difficult deliveries.

    “The stigma of being ‘dual threat’—and I say that with the air quotations—used to mean being a runner but now it really means dual threat, doing both,” Harris says. “But I’ll be the first to say this: It’ll take consistency. If he comes back next year, he does similar or better, then people will start to realize, this is the way the position can be played.”


    Lamar (along with Harris) seems as conscious of this as anyone. I'm not real worried that any tendency toward "tunnel vision" is a significant omen for the future.



    Quote Originally Posted by BearArms View Post
    Harbs is the problem. You are dead on about "his" favorites
    I think this is misplaced where offensive diversity is concerned. Where's EdRomeo? We need that Harbs quote from this offseason, that Ed made his signature. The one about attacking the areas of the field that defenses are leaving unguarded. Also remember his big fist pump when we drafted Duvernay. Harbs is as on-board as anyone, when it comes to using more weapons on offense.


    Quote Originally Posted by lobachevsky View Post
    --Fast forward to the AB brouhaha:

    The biggest problem I have with this is that Lamar wants the Crows to sign him. I have no issue with building the offense around #8 and his generational talent, and actively soliciting his input as to whose playing style appeals to him - but that's quite a different matter from allowing him to determine who they sign.
    This seems like a non-issue to me. Have the Ravens evinced the slightest interest in Antonio Brown?


    Quote Originally Posted by lobachevsky View Post
    Heck, I would even have had Lamar active for the Squealers & running a couple of series with exactly those sets.
    But remember Lamar was dinged-up week 17. Holding him out was a get-well-for-the-postseason move, not just a victory cigar.





  7. #55
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    Re: Stacked and Pissed

    Quote Originally Posted by ArmBears View Post
    Since you like blocking things, can you block my teenage daughter and her friends from bringing in microscopic malevolent organisms?
    Just FTR, Bear, I don't really "like" "blocking" anyone; I'd much rather just . But after my patience is exhausted I do "lob" them into Loba's Ignoratory where they can entertain the other Ignored with their caterwauling & not get on my noives.

    Also FTR, teenagers of either gender are Petri dishes for nasty critters in the best of times. Maybe you should put a large picture of her late great-grandma1 somewhere she can't help but see it as she comes & goes. It might remind her there's good reasons to wear her mask, keep distance, wash her hands - you of all of us here know this is no hoax.

    About your post, one thing I noticed rewatching the games was just how efficient and effective Gus is. Seemed like chunk yardage constantly. I don't understand how the coaches didn't give him RB1 priority like you said.
    IMO a healthy Ingram is RB1, but not by a huge margin - maybe Gus is slightly less shifty on the handoff, maybe a little less polished catching passes out of the backfield. I do not dispute the MDs who said the sort of calf strain #21 incurred heals in 3 weeks in 80% of the cases, but it only made sense to hedge against that other 20% by getting Gus more reps with LJ.

    Another point I forgot to mention is that early INT that caromed off Mandrews' hands & changed the complexion of the game. I suspect Lamar put the ball where he did expecting #89 to be running full throttle - & if he hadn't been hobbled he either runs under it for a nice gain or jumps forward to corral it for a slightly less nice gain.

    I do think the tendencies of Lamar have and will be addressed from EDC down. He's not as passive or patient as Ozzy, and the picks of Dobbins, Duvernay and Proche show me clesrly that the team doesn't ever want to be shorthanded with weapons again. Lamar wants to win and improvement is in his DNA. He knows. He's seen the tape, and I strongly believe he'll make a pointed effort in developing a relationship with everyone. Human nature dictates favorites, but I think he learned his lesson.
    I hope so. What bothered me was the impression that HHurst only got targeted when he was wiiiiiiiide open (that 61-yd TD against the Beefalos was a thing of beauty!) or when LJ was out of alternatives - and he usually made the tough catch in traffic. About the only thing Hurst wasn't adept at was the jump-ball.

    (And I wonder - not even "suspect," just wonder - if Hayden Hurst's acknowledged struggles with depression and suicidal ideation was a factor in Lamar keeping a distance. That kind of thing scares folks.2)

    Harbs is the problem. You are dead on about "his" favorites, although hanging on to mediocre or non performing players isn't what it was a few years ago. I hope Harbs is in agreement with not making the same mistake again. I just don't get the Gus underutilization when the man gets the job done, over and over again
    Not sure I can agree with you about Harbs. IMO he sticks by a belief that "you play the way you practice" & he has a bias against "game-day heroes." IIRC it took him awhile to reconcile himself to Ed Reed - & he never did cotton to Pollard. In fact I wonder if he hasn't bought too far into a phenomenal 23-year-old talent who probably could use some gentle guidance in learning to appreciate all his teammates for their particular talents and make use of them. (It's called maturation.)

    1 Who, also FTR, sounds like she was one heckuva lady, & you, my ursine friend, have been in my thoughts since you reported her situation here - I just never figured out how to say so.

    2 Many years ago a good friend met the love of his life - they seemed like the perfect couple destined for many decades of wedded bliss - until in an unguarded moment, he let slip that he suffered from depression and occasionally thought about ending it all. (Not that I think he ever would have done it, but...) She dropped him like a hot potato. Turned out that one of her closest school friends had done it - & she couldn't put herself in that position again. And he never got over losing her. Sad.
    ...If yinz ain't vaxxed & boosted by now, ain't nuffin' I say gonna change yer mind. Just don't drop dead on my lawn.

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  8. #56
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    Re: Stacked and Pissed

    Quote Originally Posted by JimZipCode View Post
    But remember Lamar was dinged-up week 17. Holding him out was a get-well-for-the-postseason move, not just a victory cigar.
    I don't remember him being more than slightly dinged up, but it might not have been wise to put him opposite a defense in kill-shot mode. Fair enough. I remain convinced he should've spent the two weeks before the divisional round getting comfortable with Hurst and Gus as #1s in practice just in case.
    ...If yinz ain't vaxxed & boosted by now, ain't nuffin' I say gonna change yer mind. Just don't drop dead on my lawn.

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  9. #57
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    Re: Stacked and Pissed

    Quote Originally Posted by lobachevsky View Post
    I remain convinced he should've spent the two weeks before the divisional round getting comfortable with Hurst and Gus as #1s in practice just in case.
    Might be one of those things where, counter-intuitively, the best thing long-term might've been if something had happened to force Mark Andrews to miss 3 or 4 weeks during the season. Maybe cost us a game we (in real life) won, broken the 12-game streak; but forced Lamar to diversify.

    I dunno, though. I honestly think Lamar wasn't quite ready. He didn't seem as poised as usual; was forcing things a little. Cf that thing Josh Harris said, about how Lamar was trying too hard, to live up to the MVP and save the season. Rather than just taking what the defense gives and letting the game come to him.

    MVP or not, he was still a 22yo (well, a week out) kid making his 25th start. First postseason in a new offense. In retrospect it is not a surprise that he might've needed a little more seasoning.





  10. #58
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    Re: Stacked and Pissed

    I don’t think Lamar plays favorites in the way it’s being perceived here.

    I think Lamar follows the progressions within the play and those progressions were funneled through Hollywood and Andrews.

    If Lamar is playing favorites it is merely an extension of the coaching staff playing “favorites” and for an analytics based team like the Ravens the favorites are most likely backed up by production and EPA.

    Lamar did not have his best game, the fumble and 2nd interception especially but net-net the 1st down playcalling was and remains my biggest issue.
    Last edited by edromeo; 08-12-2020 at 08:39 AM.





  11. Re: Stacked and Pissed

    Quote Originally Posted by lobachevsky View Post
    I don't remember him being more than slightly dinged up, but it might not have been wise to put him opposite a defense in kill-shot mode. Fair enough. I remain convinced he should've spent the two weeks before the divisional round getting comfortable with Hurst and Gus as #1s in practice just in case.
    I think his quad injury was mostly healed, but IIRC, he had the flu during the week 17 game (and in the week leading up to it).
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  12. #60
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    Re: Stacked and Pissed

    This is an unpopular opinion, but by far the single biggest reason for the Titans loss was this: shit happens.

    We weren't going to continue winning forever. If that Titans game had been week 16, it would have been, "Oh good, a wake-up call to get us ready for the playoffs." But it happened January 11 instead, and it ended our season.

    Missed fourth-and-ones, tipped and dropped balls, all kinds of things that weren't a problem during the regular season happened, and things snowballed.
    "Chin up, chest out."





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