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  1. #13

    Re: Ravens Sign TE Jerell Adams

    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWhiteNorthRaven View Post
    Still hope we bring in Delanie Walker.

    Love Ricard and as an H-back blocker I get it, but he isn't going to be a receiving threat outside of flats. Hurst was able to sneak into some zones becuase he was a crafty route runner with good awareness. A guy like Walker makes them a little more dynamic.
    Ya know, the Jags are going to be terrible. They drafted an athletic Josh Oliver last year and had James O'Shaughnassy showing glimpses of being productive before getting hurt. They also drafted a blocking tight-end this year. Point being: Tyler Eifert as seventh round pick might be more valuable to them than Tyler Eifert as mentor elbowing out playing time from younger players.

    Eifert is brittle, but he's also shown a knack for being productive in the red zone. Perhaps coming here, to a limited role, might keep him healthy enough to do what he does (did) best: run and catch, and catch in the redzone.

    A couple of other guys to look at. First, Ben Braunecker: Harvard grad, great Combine. I don't know why he couldn't breakthrough in Chicago. Considering that Shaheen and Burton also failed there suggests to me that maybe there's something in the water there.

    Next guy: Tyler Conklin. The third TE in Minnesota. If I recall correctly, Kubiak utilizes just one TE in the passing game. The Vikings extended (inexplicably so) Kyle Rudolph. Last year they drafted a more athletic TE in Irv Smith. Conklin might be a spare part. From what I've read, he's a versatile TE with average speed but good burst/explosion Combine numbers. Perhaps the Ravens have DT to send them to make up for their loss of Pierce and PJ Hall's failed physical.





  2. Re: Ravens Sign TE Jerell Adams

    Quote Originally Posted by edromeo View Post
    Nice pull, no dice on Hurst I guess?
    I don't have much on Hurst. On the (long) list of stuff to do over the next 6 weeks is watch and chart all of his snaps. I can say that the 500 snap number looks high. I'd guess it includes the playoff game (43 snaps, I think), which will skew his numbers slightly since it was so terribly pass-heavy.

    Like others, I'm not terribly worried about losing Hurst (pending film). My memory tells me he got a lot of snaps last year in the 2nd half of blowouts, when the Ravens would come out with Boyle, Hurst, and Ricard and run at teams. Those snaps seems rather replaceable (although not with this guy, who apparently cannot block). Boyle probably does enough to take over the routes they had Hayden run. It's not like he was the first option very often anyway. I struggle to think of anything that could make Hurst unique. Both he and Boyle lined up as the H-back. All three TEs could split out wide. All three could be the in-line TE. Even the vaunted 13 stuff, there were only ~60 snaps with Boyle, Hurst, and Andrews on the field (there were quite a few more involving Ricard, but they can still throw out Andrews+Boyle+Ricard, so those aren't gone as far as I'm concerned).

    I don't even think Hurst is bad. I expect him to have a great year in Atlanta. He was just redundant here.

    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWhiteNorthRaven View Post
    Still hope we bring in Delanie Walker.

    Love Ricard and as an H-back blocker I get it, but he isn't going to be a receiving threat outside of flats. Hurst was able to sneak into some zones becuase he was a crafty route runner with good awareness. A guy like Walker makes them a little more dynamic.
    Granted, I haven't watched all of his snaps, but this is not how I would describe Hayden Hurst
    Shared Google Folder with Ravens spreadsheets, nextGen charts, and more! Please share my content! (attribution to Twitter requested)

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  3. #15
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    Re: Ravens Sign TE Jerell Adams

    Quote Originally Posted by edromeo View Post
    For the sake of my clarity; do you mean that you assume that Ricard will get more snaps to fill the "Hayden Hurst role"

    OR

    Did you mean that you thought Ricard lined up more often on the line of scrimmage then in the backfield?
    The former. I assumed that Ricard would get some more snaps in a TE / H-back role.

    Mostly I figured we would spend a lot more time in 3-wide, and not need Hurst's role as much. But for the times we did, I assumed Ricard would get some more play. It's easy to see him as one of the side guys in the diamond formation, for example.





  4. Re: Ravens Sign TE Jerell Adams

    Quote Originally Posted by edromeo View Post
    Nice pull, no dice on Hurst I guess?
    Here's what I do have on Hurst.

    515 snaps, including 15 pre-snap penalties that don't actually count as snaps, so 500 total. That matches PFF. 43 of these came in the playoff game: 7 runs, 36 dropbacks (28 attempts, 2 sacks, 6 scrambles).

    That leaves 457 regular season snaps. 19 of these were nullified by penalty. 2 were two point attempts. 2 more were fumbled exchanges between Ingram and Jackson. He was also on the field for 24 kneels (5% of his total RS snaps!). That leaves 410 "real" snaps. 200 were called runs, and 210 were dropbacks (180 attempts, 15 sacks, 15 scrambles).

    The interesting part for me: Hurst played more when 1. the Ravens were winning and 2. late in games.

    Here's Hurst's usage by game situation compared to the Ravens overall offensive snap breakdown (I picked the splits to be tied, lead/trail by 1 score, lead/trail by 2+):

    Game Situation Hurst Snap% Ravens Snap%
    Trail 9+
    4.15%
    7.63%
    Trail 1-8
    9.51%
    11.29%
    Tied
    20.98%
    21.91%
    Lead 1-8
    29.51%
    28.38%
    Lead 9+
    35.85%
    30.79%

    A bit off topic, but this table is a great reminder that the Ravens rarely trailed. 19% of their snaps came when they were down in the game. They had the lead for 59% of their snaps. That's crazy!
    Anyway, when the Ravens were winning, they put Hurst in the game more often. When they were losing, he mostly stayed on the sideline.

    That's also true regarding the quarter of the game:

    Quarter Hurst Snap% Ravens Snap%
    1
    24.63%
    24.90%
    2
    20.24%
    22.68%
    3
    20.49%
    24.32%
    4
    33.66%
    27.51%
    5
    0.98%
    0.58%

    Hurst played less often in the middle of the game, but he came in for a lot of Q4 mop-up duty. I have a very confusing table that combines these two factors, and Hurst got nearly 23% of his snaps in Q4 when the Ravens were up by 9+ (the Ravens offense overall took 14.5% of their snaps in this situation). That's 94 snaps (and remember, I've already removed 24 kneels!).

    I'd like to run similar analysis for Andrews and Boyle, but I know what I expect. Boyle's snap distribution is likely very similar to the Ravens overall because he basically played in all situations. Andrews played more when they were down and less when they were ahead (because he was banged up, he's not as good of a blocker, etc.). Hurst was filling space. He was overqualified for how the Ravens wanted to use him. Assuming he makes the team, a player like Charles Scarff is more than likely an adequate replacement. No, he's not going to catch a 61 yard TD and set the Ravens speed record for the season, but he's going to be there to block in Q4 when the Ravens are up and trying to run the clock out (I hope those passes are going to go to Brown, Boykin, Duverney, and Proche instead anyway).

    This overall view is just a start. I'm hopeful that I'll find time to chart all of Hurst's snaps in the next 2-3 weeks (something akin to what I did for Boykin). That should give a better idea of where he lined up, and what personnel will be required to replace those snaps.
    Shared Google Folder with Ravens spreadsheets, nextGen charts, and more! Please share my content! (attribution to Twitter requested)

    Knight of the Kingdom of Perfect Play, Student of The Bill James School of Stamping Out Bullshit. Main Sources: PFR, particularly the Play Index; for cap stuff, RSR's Brian McFarland (secondary: OverTheCap, Spotrac)





  5. #17
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    Re: Ravens Sign TE Jerell Adams

    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to organizedchaos21 again.





  6. #18
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    Re: Ravens Sign TE Jerell Adams

    Quote Originally Posted by JimZipCode View Post
    The former. I assumed that Ricard would get some more snaps in a TE / H-back role.

    Mostly I figured we would spend a lot more time in 3-wide, and not need Hurst's role as much. But for the times we did, I assumed Ricard would get some more play. It's easy to see him as one of the side guys in the diamond formation, for example.
    Gotcha.
    I don't think Ricard is a good enough route runner/receiver to replace Hurst on his passing snaps.
    And Ricard is already on the field for a lot of Hurst run blocking snaps.

    But I agree that the staff won't worry about directly replicating the "Hurst" portion of the offense.
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  7. #19
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    Re: Ravens Sign TE Jerell Adams

    Quote Originally Posted by organizedchaos21 View Post
    Granted, I haven't watched all of his snaps, but this is not how I would describe Hayden Hurst
    How would you?

    I found he did a fantastic job of reading zones and pacing into pockets.
    "Cause if you ain’t pissed off for greatness, that just means you’re okay with being mediocre, and ain’t no man in here okay with just basic.”
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  8. #20
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    Re: Ravens Sign TE Jerell Adams

    Quote Originally Posted by edromeo View Post
    Gotcha.
    I don't think Ricard is a good enough route runner/receiver to replace Hurst on his passing snaps.
    And Ricard is already on the field for a lot of Hurst run blocking snaps.


    Love Ricard in his role, but the H-back role isn't it.
    "Cause if you ain’t pissed off for greatness, that just means you’re okay with being mediocre, and ain’t no man in here okay with just basic.”
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    Twitter: @ColeJacksonFB





  9. #21
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    Re: Ravens Sign TE Jerell Adams

    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWhiteNorthRaven View Post


    Love Ricard in his role, but the H-back role isn't it.
    6'3" 290 doesn't cut it at H-back? :D





  10. #22
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    Re: Ravens Sign TE Jerell Adams

    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWhiteNorthRaven View Post


    Love Ricard in his role, but the H-back role isn't it.
    Am I using the wrong term? He seems like a hybrid TE/FB, a Swiss-army-knife type blocker.

    I know he doesn't have the pass-catching talent that Clint Didier brought to the orginal H-back role back in 1984-86; or more recently Kyle Juszczyk. But that still seems to be his "position". A running-game H-back.





  11. #23
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    Re: Ravens Sign TE Jerell Adams

    Quote Originally Posted by JimZipCode View Post
    Am I using the wrong term? He seems like a hybrid TE/FB, a Swiss-army-knife type blocker.

    I know he doesn't have the pass-catching talent that Clint Didier brought to the orginal H-back role back in 1984-86; or more recently Kyle Juszczyk. But that still seems to be his "position".
    He’s a FB in a scheme that moves him a lot.

    He motions a ton but it’s typically to different spots in the backfield.

    H-Backs have more receiving responsibility than just running flats.
    "Cause if you ain’t pissed off for greatness, that just means you’re okay with being mediocre, and ain’t no man in here okay with just basic.”
    - Ray Lewis

    https://www.baltimoreravens.com/author/cole-jackson

    Twitter: @ColeJacksonFB





  12. #24
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    Re: Ravens Sign TE Jerell Adams

    Quote Originally Posted by WNCRavensFan View Post
    6'3" 290 doesn't cut it at H-back? :D
    I can’t think of many h backs that don’t run downfield routes lol
    "Cause if you ain’t pissed off for greatness, that just means you’re okay with being mediocre, and ain’t no man in here okay with just basic.”
    - Ray Lewis

    https://www.baltimoreravens.com/author/cole-jackson

    Twitter: @ColeJacksonFB





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