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  1. #73

    Re: What player would you trade 2 1st rounders for?

    Quote Originally Posted by jonboy79 View Post
    You would not trade 2 let firsts for Aaron Donald?

    Iíd probably go 3... even with his contract.


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    He didn't and couldn't carry the team on his back the way a QB can, look at the game against the Ravens.





  2. #74

    Re: What player would you trade 2 1st rounders for?

    Quote Originally Posted by JimZipCode View Post
    They're very particular about what body type plays what role on their defense. They're more flexible on offense; but on D, Pete Carroll wants a certain type of guy at each position. It's the template that led to the Legion of Boom. It's very important to them. They're willing to overpay for Jamal Adams, so they can re-create the Kam Chancellor heyday of their defense. I'm skeptical of the cost-benefit, but those guys opened a multiyear championship window the last time they built to their template. There's no question they have a vision.

    By contrast, the Ravens are more willing to take the draft as it comes. They're more flexible in terms of height-weight requirements for positions. They'll draft big corners and small corners; Jamal Lewis and Ray Rice.

    It's not like they're not serious about "fit". The Ravens are very goddam serious about "fit". But for the Ravens, it's attitude fit and work-ethic fit and culture fit, etc. Those things are non-negotiable; and then the talent-level has to match the draft position. But in terms of template, the Ravens are willing to bring aboard players of different "styles". Whatever the players toolset is, they'll use it. They're not as locked-in to "a corner must have Richard Sherman's height and wingspan" etc.
    Thats why Russell Wilson has to perform miracles each week to win now. They hit on him in the draft but since then the first couple rounds blanch.

    They're poor drafting has caught up to them and its going to take more miracles by Wilson with young talent lacking for help. Unrealistic long term strategy.

    Guess they're admitting they stuck in the draft so 2 firsts was a easy decision. Plus the 3rd





  3. #75

    Re: What player would you trade 2 1st rounders for?

    Quote Originally Posted by BearArms View Post
    He didn't and couldn't carry the team on his back the way a QB can, look at the game against the Ravens.
    1. Our team doesnít need to be carried:
    2. A QB that can carry a team on their back is worth a helluva lot more than (2) firsts: As stated earlier, I donít think Iíd take (4h 1sts for a Lamar, not sure there is a price for Mahomes but 6-7 firsts and more would be the start of conversations. Even Russel Wilson is worth 3-5 firsts at this point and heís the wrong side of 30...

    People do realize that Tunsil, Adams and Ramsey were all traded for (2) firsts in the past year-ish. Like it or not, that is the going rate at this point. Draft picks are once again dropping in value. Part of this is the 5th year option in the new CBA skyrocketing.


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  4. #76
    Join Date
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    5,565

    Re: What player would you trade 2 1st rounders for?

    Quote Originally Posted by jonboy79 View Post
    1. Our team doesn’t need to be carried:
    2. A QB that can carry a team on their back is worth a helluva lot more than (2) firsts: As stated earlier, I don’t think I’d take (4h 1sts for a Lamar, not sure there is a price for Mahomes but 6-7 firsts and more would be the start of conversations. Even Russel Wilson is worth 3-5 firsts at this point and he’s the wrong side of 30...

    People do realize that Tunsil, Adams and Ramsey were all traded for (2) firsts in the past year-ish. Like it or not, that is the going rate at this point. Draft picks are once again dropping in value. Part of this is the 5th year option in the new CBA skyrocketing.
    I think teams that dump 1st round picks like they are bottlecaps tend to be badly run bottomfeeders. Or, those with a mindset that they are "one player away...." That will never define the Ravens so long as the current leadership is in place. You need regular influxes of top talent at low prices to stay competitive over time. I'm willing to bet that LA is already regretting paying 2 for Ramsey, and that they will be dismantling that team soon.


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  5. Re: What player would you trade 2 1st rounders for?

    Quote Originally Posted by BearArms View Post
    He didn't and couldn't carry the team on his back the way a QB can, look at the game against the Ravens.
    As Jonboy says, he wouldn't need to carry the team. Just being Aaron Donald would be plenty of return on 2 firsts.

    (Two firsts are not the whole of a team's assests anyway. The Ravens had a very successful draft after wasting the first pick in 2013)
    Last edited by QtR Nevermore; 08-04-2020 at 09:24 AM.





  6. Re: What player would you trade 2 1st rounders for?

    Quote Originally Posted by BearArms View Post
    Thats why Russell Wilson has to perform miracles each week to win now. They hit on him in the draft but since then the first couple rounds blanch.

    They're poor drafting has caught up to them and its going to take more miracles by Wilson with young talent lacking for help. Unrealistic long term strategy.
    It's not such a bad strategy. They've been one of the most successful teams of the last decade. A lot of that is down to finding Wilson but when you compare Seattle's last decade with Green Bay's they look pretty similar. Both were lucky enough to hit on a star QB (Wilson's better now but Rogers was the best earlier) and both were about equally successful, though Seattle came much closer to winning a second SB.

    Until recently Green Bay treated draft picks like gold, as you advocate, whereas Seattle wasted early picks chasing their rigid physical templates. Neither plan worked out much better than the other.

    The team that left them both in the dust were the most flexible and pragmatic, making picks or trading picks or doing whatever else it took to win.

    Of course building through the draft is smart and teams that waste first round picks are consistently terrible but if you stick to that rule too rigidly you'll miss out on chances to improve your team. Turning down the chance to add Aaron Donald for two late firsts would be a victory for stubborness over sensible team building.





  7. #79
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    New York City
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    Thumbs up Re: What player would you trade 2 1st rounders for?

    Quote Originally Posted by QtR Nevermore View Post
    DeCosta does looks like a great GM but I think his greatness shows further down the draft, in trades and in his roster building.

    There are stats* that show that the hit rate of terrible GMs and great GMs isn't that different in the first round. Almost every first round prospect is a great athlete that all the evaluators love and no GM is much better than any other when it comes to working out which ones will succeed and which will fail.

    (*I don't have the stats. I just remember hearing about them. I'm not one of these posters who comes prepared.)
    I agree, but DeCosta also makes excellent "sign and/or don't sign" decisions. Plus trades that seem to defy logic, for the other team that is ... Bc





  8. #80

    Re: What player would you trade 2 1st rounders for?

    Only player worth trading two first round picks for would be the winner of a SB MVP. Thatís a fair return on two picks.





  9. Re: What player would you trade 2 1st rounders for?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jfoh View Post
    Only player worth trading two first round picks for would be the winner of a SB MVP. That’s a fair return on two picks.
    No it isn't. That would be a fair return for about 6 first round picks but I'm not going repeat myself about why late first rounders aren't as valuable as many seem to think.





  10. #82

    Re: What player would you trade 2 1st rounders for?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jfoh View Post
    Only player worth trading two first round picks for would be the winner of a SB MVP. Thatís a fair return on two picks.
    And to think we only got a 4th for Flacco


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