Civil War

[DitkasSausage]

As for the main topic: Are we heading towards Civil War? The answer is undoubtedly yes... and it is ridiculous because it is based on a small group of power brokers not "getting their way".

Let's face it... all of this racial stuff is absolutely ridiculous. Reparations will not be paid... period. There is not ONE statistic backing ANY of this current upheaval... not one. Yet there are powerful people allowing this to happen in order to move around a political football. Is it past the point of no return? Yes. You cannot have bands of criminals storming city buildings, hurting general civilians, destroying property, and burning things down and have local authorities doing nothing. I feel it was all to goad Trump into sending in these federal forces because they know how he thinks. We can agree or disagree about the validity of Trump sending in Federal Forces, but we should ALL agree that the people intentionally causing the situation are bad people. They have riled up an uneducated section of our population into believing that America is bad, and then telling them that they are basically fighting Nazis everywhere. That is insane. They use government paid colleges to spread this message as well which is even worse.

Here is what the government has done over the last 25 years:

-Took away manufacturing and production, and outsourced it by over-regulating and over-taxing it. It has crippled what was previously known as the middle class.
-Replaced it with tech/service sector jobs that they told an entire generation they needed to be college educated to work in.
-Kids got to college, and were told they HAD TO take certain electives, and these professors who taught these electives were ardent socialists who hate America.
-Most kids that have had to take those courses (myself being one of them) either recognize that it was dumb, but it only takes 1-3 every semester
-Once they got enough of these idiot kids that stuck around head nodding to socialist professors, then came the organized groups facilitated by the internet.
-Then... we have bands of mis-educated kids through 50 year old "professional protestors" who recruited the people that were VERY uneducated to swell their ranks.
-Now... we have a mobilized and somewhat organized, propaganda-fueled group which is where ANTIFA comes in... ANTIFA has been around a LOOONG time in several iterations... they are smart, well funded, and know to play the system instead of fighting it.
- That is why they include lawyers in their groups to film stuff and look for things to make it seem like THEY are the grieved party.

So yeah... there has been an insurrection brewing for a LONG time now, and it is fully here on our doorstep. They have taken over large portions of the media as well. Look at that Bari Weiss... she tried to inject a moderate POV into the NYT and was bashed behind closed doors as a "Nazi sympathizer" and writing too many articles on "jew stuff". She was eventually bullied so much she just left, and nobody blames her! She was there 3 years taking thorough abuse from co-workers while her bosses fully allowed it.

Traditional Liberals do infuriate me lately because I remember growing up with definite differing opinions. It was mostly about what the role of government is and where money should be spent. They need to take a hard look at their party now. The party that encourages violence, ignorance, and anarchy. While they might not openly support it, they need to stop being so damned quiet. Nobody is saying you need to vote for Trump... but you also cannot sit quietly by supporting hatred. You are supporting a party now of intolerance and full blown communism. You are supporting a party that is being injected with a LOT of antisemitism. Your party has drawn a VERY distinctive line in the sand that is anti-american, and looking to fight it out with violence. I do not see how we respond quietly much longer.

[DitkasSausage]

Does it?

Federal Income tax, State Income Tax, Local Income tax, sales tax, property tax, auto registration tax, fuel tax, tolls for roads, sin taxes on alcohol, cigarettes etc... these are just the taxes levied directly against you.

Now with the money you have left over, you get to try to purchase goods.

The price of everything you buy is burdened enormously with direct taxes and regulatory costs that manufacturers and service providers pay to the state, that is passed directly on to you, the consumer. The cost of satisfying federal regulation alone (*according to the Mercatus Center at George Mason University) is a 4 Trillion dollar GDP penalty ($33,000 dollars per US Household)

So in direct taxes government takes about a third from the average middle class tax payer when all direct taxes are considered.

Then your purchasing power is further diluted by the cost of the tax and regulatory burden that businesses are levied, and pass directly on to you. I think it is actually a little conservative to say that this burden doubles the price of anything you buy.

That's 2/3 of your purchasing power that goes to the state.

The fact that you don't see it as a tax bill, doesn't make it any less so.

Listen... I can agree it is a higher amount than I'd like, but 65% seems high. It would be an interesting study. To allow the finances of a middle class family, and determine the EXACT % that goes to FED/STATE/LOCAL government whether through taxes, fees, or services. All I'm saying is there is not hard way to know the exact number... could it be 65%? Sure... but that just seems higher to me than what I experience in my own budget. I'll just round my household income to $200k... I know I don't pay over $100k to government. It just doesn't happen.

[owknows]

All I'm saying is there is not hard way to know the exact number... could it be 65%? Sure... but that just seems higher to me than what I experience in my own budget. I'll just round my household income to $200k... I know I don't pay over $100k to government. It just doesn't happen.

When all taxes levied directly against YOU and your household are factored in... you pay about 1/3 of your income directly to the government.

Now you have 2/3 left.

To purchase goods and services.

The producers of all of those goods and services are taxed directly, just like you are... and they have the additional fiscal burden of satisfying federal, state and local regulations. Regulations that apply not only to the goods and services you purchase, but also to the employees that produce those goods and services. The cost of satisfying those regulations is ENORMOUS, and is passed directly on to you, the consumer.

It easily doubles the price of any goods and service you buy.

If you concede this point, then you concede that you are paying 2/3 of your purchasing power to the government.

If you don't concede this point, then the government thanks you for your 2/3 contribution nevertheless.

[Ravens75]

Remember three years ago during the pinnacle of the peaceful protest or disrespecting the flag or anthem(whatever side you’re on) there was a thread bringing back up the discussion about kneeling? I stated let’s let the conversation lie. I was met with vitriol from the usual suspects including folks that were supposed to be admins(not you wickedl). I said it because we were calming down and didn’t need to go back to that but I also did it because I knew the constant back and forth would lead to verbal and physical violence.

I was correct.

During my many back and Forth’s with folks I stated that if we’re not careful blood would be shed and honestly it’s about to happen where either the ‘problem’ will be eliminated(there are some people that say if you eliminate minorities then your problems go away) or they’ll be a balancing of the equation wherein folks of all walks of life have a truly equal chance at the same life afforded to others.

There’s too much anger but more specifically differences in philosophies of life for us to co-exist peacefully and happily. As I stated a few weeks ago it’s too late for us. We’re set in our ways and have made up our minds that this is how we want things to be.

Left
Right
Black
White

Those four words generate so much anger and will ultimately lead to our downfall.

Good luck


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[owknows]

Left
Right
Black
White

Those four words generate so much anger and will ultimately lead to our downfall.

The vitriol and anger behind the employment of these words has been cultivated for decades by people whose intent is our downfall.

It is neither organic, or accidental.

[steelerhater]

Orange man screwed the pooch. He can own it.

How? He tried banning flights from China, etc, but he was called a racist and xenophobic.

[BPF2]

The vitriol and anger behind the employment of these words has been cultivated for decades by people whose intent is our downfall.

It is neither organic, or accidental.

Those who have cultivated those words do it for the sole purpose of division. Everything must be a binary decision so each side can build more support. That's why the messaging is that you can not support police AND support police reform. You can not support people's right to protest AND be outraged by looting/violence. You can not express respect for the flag or founding fathers AND be a non-racist.

[owknows]

How? He tried banning flights from China, etc, but he was called a racist and xenophobic.

By the same douchebags who spent the first 60 days of the outbreak telling us how stupid it was to wear masks

[NCRAVEN]

By the same douchebags who spent the first 60 days of the outbreak telling us how stupid it was to wear masks

You mean Washington Post, NYT, CNN, MSNBC etc?

[owknows]

You mean Washington Post, NYT, CNN, MSNBC etc?

And their designated "experts", yes

[2bynight]

The average middle class taxpayer surrenders more than 65% of his income in federal state and local income tax, sales tax, luxury taxes, sin taxes, fuel tax, state and local fees, real estate taxes, and the hidden tax burden that goes into the price of whatever he buys with what's left.

Seems high but that may be the case. I know so much of my income is drained by not only federal and state taxes, but county taxes, and other assessments. I'm in the top5% of earners but feel like I could give the economy so much more than I do if I didn't have so much money just disappearing into a hole.

[2bynight]

What does the OP deem a Civil War? Media/protests/unrest or actually an armed conflict in the sense of the American Civil War with mass casualties? If the latter definition with mass casualties/armed conflict than no, we are not headed for a civil war. I do not deem the current protests with sporadic looting/fires as a civil war. That seems to have calmed down and anyone who remembers the looting, fires, war protests, cultural divide in the 60s knows that was a lot worse than what we have today.