Lamar vs Randall

[JimZipCode]

For over a year now I've been telling everyone who'll listen that Lamar is the Unicorn etc. And for the past six months, how NO ONE in the HISTORY of the LEAGUE has EVER had a seasons REMOTELY like the one Lamar just had, yadda-yadda ad nauseum.

Well hold on a second. Behold Randall Cunningham's 1990 season:

271 of 465 (58%) for 3466 yds (7.5pa) with 30 TDs and 13 INTs

and also

118 rushes for 942 yds with 5 TDs

Compare with Lamar:

Player	TD passes	Pass Rating	Comp%	Rush Yds	Yards-per
Lamar 2019	1st	3rd	9th	6th	1st
Randall 1990	2nd	5th	7th	9th	1st

• Lamar threw 36 TDs and rushed for 1200 yds.
• Randall threw 30 TDs and rushed for 940 yds.

That's shockingly comparable. Lamar's efficiency stats are better, but a lot of that is the era. The only real blot on Randall's season is how many sacks he took.

Somehow I slept thru the whole middle of Randall's career. I remember him as a gangly 23yo who seemed like a Buddy Ryan gimmick. And I remember him as an elder statesman in Minnesota, setting records with Randy Moss & Cris Carter & Robert Smith. But I sort of blanked out this whole swath of years in between, him toiling away for Buddy and then Rich Kotite. And he was good!

Man. Imagine him with a real coach.

---

I've been adamant since he was drafted that Steve Young is the best comp for Lamar. I still think that's right. But maybe I've been foolish not to consider peak Randall more carefully.

[HanktheRIPPER]

Cool

[darb72]

Randall Cunningham is one of the best QB's in NFL history. I put him up there with Dan Marino as one of the greatest to never win a Super Bowl. He just had the bad luck of playing in the same division as the Redskins and Cowboys.

[JimZipCode]

Randall Cunningham is one of the best QB's in NFL history. I put him up there with Dan Marino as one of the greatest to never win a Super Bowl. He just had the bad luck of playing in the same division as the Redskins and Cowboys.

Talented AF; but I would not put him among the "best" as in most skilled. I agree he had bad luck. But to me the misfortune was less to do with his opponents and more to do with his coaching. He had the bad luck to play for Buddy Ryan and then Rich Kotite. I don't think he ever got the quality of coaching that Marino or Fouts or Favre (or certainly Steve Young) got. I don't think Buddy felt that offensive players were worth coaching. Randall was left to sink or swim.

Ken Filmstudy PM'd me in response to this thread, to point out Randall's horrendous sack numbers, and to contrast them with Lamar's. It's a hugely important point. It keeps Randall from ever being numbered among the great QBs; also clearly separates Lamar from him.

Where I agree with you is that Randall was one of the great talents to ever play QB in the NFL. What if Bill Walsh had gotten ahold of him?? Or Joe Gibbs, or Mike Shanahan, or Mike Holmgren? Someone who knew what the fuck he was doing; or at least gave a shit about offense. Sticking Randall with Buddy Ryan was a tragic waste.

Ray Rhodes brought a solid staff with him when the Iggles finally gave Kotite the bum's rush. Unfortunately Randall was 32 and beat to shit by that point. We later saw a suggestion of what he might have been, when he had some structure (and Randy Moss!) under Denny Green & Billick in Minnesota.

Randall should've developed into a Hall of Famer. But it didn't happen.

[darb72]

Talented AF; but I would not put him among the "best" as in most skilled. I agree he had bad luck. But to me the misfortune was less to do with his opponents and more to do with his coaching. He had the bad luck to play for Buddy Ryan and then Rich Kotite. I don't think he ever got the quality of coaching that Marino or Fouts or Favre (or certainly Steve Young) got. I don't think Buddy felt that offensive players were worth coaching. Randall was left to sink or swim.

Ken Filmstudy PM'd me in response to this thread, to point out Randall's horrendous sack numbers, and to contrast them with Lamar's. It's a hugely important point. It keeps Randall from ever being numbered among the great QBs; also clearly separates Lamar from him.

Where I agree with you is that Randall was one of the great talents to ever play QB in the NFL. What if Bill Walsh had gotten ahold of him?? Or Joe Gibbs, or Mike Shanahan, or Mike Holmgren? Someone who knew what the fuck he was doing; or at least gave a shit about offense. Sticking Randall with Buddy Ryan was a tragic waste.

Ray Rhodes brought a solid staff with him when the Iggles finally gave Kotite the bum's rush. Unfortunately Randall was 32 and beat to shit by that point. We later saw a suggestion of what he might have been, when he had some structure (and Randy Moss!) under Denny Green & Billick in Minnesota.

Randall should've developed into a Hall of Famer. But it didn't happen.

When I say one of the best, yeah, I mean most skilled. I'd quite happily start a franchise with Cunningham as the QB.

His '98 season was what he could accomplish with coaching and an offense built around him. Only three times did he have a thousand yard rusher when he was with the Eagles,his rookie season, last season and one with Herschel Walker. Cunningham carried the offense by himself the entire time he was in Philly. It was a shame the Eagles didn't want to use him right.

What the Ravens have done is built our team around Lamar. Cunningham never had that luxury.

[usmccharles]

These numbers are pretty identical, of course expect the comp percentage. It's interesting how players can mimickmnumbers but look totally different on the field.

Cam Newtons mvp year
3837 yards
35 TDs
10ints
59.8%

132 rushes for 636 10TDs
Total yards- 4473
Yotal TDs- 45

Lamar
3127
36TDs
6ints
66.1%

176 rushes For 1206 7TDs
Total yards- 4333
Total TDs- 43


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[WNCRavensFan]

Randall is a somewhat forgotten legend.



So the key question for me is, how long did he last? Well, his first full season was 1987. He followed that up with three straight Pro Bowl seasons 1988-1990. After that he alternated between injured and healthy years from 1991 to 1995 and retired in 1996.

By that time he was 33 and no longer the runner he used to be. But the Minnesota Vikings (OC: Brian Billick) brought him out of retirement and in 1998 he had his only All Pro season, leading the Vikings to the NFC championship game. That year he ran for 132 yards and 1 TD.

He was consistently a playoff QB but never went to the Super Bowl. His record, 3-6 as a starter.

[21xxxv]

Randall Cunningham is one of the best QB's in NFL history. I put him up there with Dan Marino as one of the greatest to never win a Super Bowl. He just had the bad luck of playing in the same division as the Redskins and Cowboys.

Randall is a great person. He was a dynamic game changer during the era the he played. The Eagle teams while Randall was at the helm were fun to watch! Defenses couldn't really defend him.... But, comparing him Dan Marino and one of the greatest is a bit much. I understand the lack of a Super Bowl Analogy . Bert Jones was a much better QB, and his career was needed by Bubba Baker on a concrete turf at the Silver Dome in Detroit in Preseason.... Please take a couple of deep breaths..... He is NOT "one of the greatest QB's in History.

[SouthSide]

Talented AF; but I would not put him among the "best" as in most skilled. I agree he had bad luck. But to me the misfortune was less to do with his opponents and more to do with his coaching. He had the bad luck to play for Buddy Ryan and then Rich Kotite. I don't think he ever got the quality of coaching that Marino or Fouts or Favre (or certainly Steve Young) got. I don't think Buddy felt that offensive players were worth coaching. Randall was left to sink or swim.

Ken Filmstudy PM'd me in response to this thread, to point out Randall's horrendous sack numbers, and to contrast them with Lamar's. It's a hugely important point. It keeps Randall from ever being numbered among the great QBs; also clearly separates Lamar from him.

Where I agree with you is that Randall was one of the great talents to ever play QB in the NFL. What if Bill Walsh had gotten ahold of him?? Or Joe Gibbs, or Mike Shanahan, or Mike Holmgren? Someone who knew what the fuck he was doing; or at least gave a shit about offense. Sticking Randall with Buddy Ryan was a tragic waste.

Ray Rhodes brought a solid staff with him when the Iggles finally gave Kotite the bum's rush. Unfortunately Randall was 32 and beat to shit by that point. We later saw a suggestion of what he might have been, when he had some structure (and Randy Moss!) under Denny Green & Billick in Minnesota.

Randall should've developed into a Hall of Famer. But it didn't happen.

Sounds similar to McNabb's experience on Philly. The most part he had trash (James Trash) as a supporting cast and was forced to carry the team alone.

Maybe it their ownership, because they had different head coaches.

[JimZipCode]

Sounds similar to McNabb's experience on Philly. The most part he had trash (James Trash) as a supporting cast and was forced to carry the team alone.

The dissimilarity for me is Andy Reid. That's a whole different level of offensive coaching than Buddy Ryan's staff afforded.

[WNCRavensFan]

Sounds similar to McNabb's experience on Philly. The most part he had trash (James Trash) as a supporting cast and was forced to carry the team alone.

Maybe it their ownership, because they had different head coaches.

McNabb is closer to the HOF than Cunningham is. He sustained his success. I'd actually call McNabb one of the five best eligible QBs not in Canton, along with Ken Anderson, Roman Gabriel, Boomer Esiason and Drew Bledsoe.

[JimZipCode]

McNabb is closer to the HOF than Cunningham is. He sustained his success. I'd actually call McNabb one of the five best eligible QBs not in Canton, along with Ken Anderson, Roman Gabriel, Boomer Esiason and Drew Bledsoe.

PFR has a monitor:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/hof/hofm_QB.htm