Hearing What Black Voices Really Say About the Police

**wickedsolo** · 07-07-2020, 12:20 PM

To me, it's pretty simple.

Those that actually want to get rid of the police want to do so because citizens will arm themselves and people will get shot. That will lead to retaliation opportunities. Then, it becomes a war. Maybe not on a large scale, but a war.

**The Excellector** · 07-07-2020, 12:29 PM

Most African Americans want reform, not to defund the police. The media doesn’t speak for us, has never spoken for us and will never speak for us. The media speaks for the media. When enough people get tired of it and stop consuming it, they will change things.

If there’s one issue throughout all of this that most African Americans have been frustrated about, it’s the idea that these are isolated incidents. No, these are not isolated incidents. Before technology reached this point, many African Americans tried to bring light to these deep-rooted issues and a lot of people used the lack of evidence as an excuse to declare that it was not a problem at all. Now that the technology is out people have no choice, but to acknowledge issues. Yet, want to make it out as if these are just very isolated bad apple incidents. They’re not.

Outside of that, we know that we need the police.

As an aside, the other topic of discussion has been the amount of black on black crime. While some of us indeed agree with the sentiment behind that argument, not all of us live in the hood. Not all of us live in the projects. Not all of us are surrounded by drug infested areas of crime. Some of us did not grow up around many others of our own race. But it doesn’t matter where we live, we’re still black, and can face this sort of mistreatment from the police. And someone shouldn’t be condemned to keep their mouth shut just because there’s black on black crime when no one else is held to that standard.

That’s about it. We know that we all need police. We want looters arrested.

Stop going crazy over the media. It’s it’s own entity.

**BcRaven** · 07-07-2020, 12:37 PM

Originally Posted by steelerhater

It seems to me that most protesters want the police, at least, defunded. My question is, does anyone think that with 1/6 of their budget trimmed (New York) that police departments will institute more training or professional developments, including diversity training, stress management, or de-escalating skills, to name a few? Defunding is not going to help with revamping police departments. It’s a very knee-jerk reaction to an ongoing problem.

To me, "defunding" is the 1st step towards "de-policing." Chaos and anarchy will reign. Yes, I'm OK with more training, even UGH sensitivity, but less police = more crime... especially in areas where poor (black) people live. IMO mixing political fodder into common sense creates an ugly brew for all citizens... Bc

**owknows** · 07-07-2020, 12:39 PM

Originally Posted by The Excellector

Most African Americans want reform, not to defund the police. The media doesn’t speak for us, has never spoken for us and will never speak for us. The media speaks for the media. When enough people get tired of it and stop consuming it, they will change things.

If there’s one issue throughout all of this that most African Americans have been frustrated about, it’s the idea that these are isolated incidents. No, these are not isolated incidents, before technology reached this point, many African Americans tried to bring light to these deep-rooted issues and a lot of people used the lack of evidence as an excuse to declare that it’s not a problem at all. Now that the technology is out people have no choice but to acknowledge issues. Yet, want to make it out as if these are just very isolated bad apple incidents. They’re not.

Outside of that, we know that we need the police.

As an aside, the other topic of discussion has been the amount of black on black crime. While some of us indeed agree with the sentiment behind that argument, not all of us live in the hood. Not all of us live in the projects. Not all of us are surrounded by drug infested areas of crime. Some of us did not grow up around many others of our own race. But it doesn’t matter where we live, we’re still black. And someone shouldn’t be condemned to keep their mouth shut just because there’s black on black crime when no one else is held to that standard.

That’s about it. We know that we all need police.

I will be candid and say that I'm pretty sure most if not all of the rhetoric involving "defund the police" and "abolish the police" comes not from any grassroots sentiment on the part of the black community, but rather from neo-marxist white people in other organizations, and in media, and in academia. (And sadly from the organizational structure of BLM itself. The two founders of BLM are self-proclaimed marxists... and their stated agenda (read their website) sounds absolutely nothing like what I would think most in the black community actually support.)

I believe that there are righteous and reasonable frustrations in the black community.

I believe equally that those righteous feelings are being co-opted and exploited by people who couldn't give a shit less about the black community.

And I further believe that if we could put aside the traditional knee jerk politics and speak honestly with one another about who is doing that exploiting, and what their true purpose is... that we could find common ground in saving the country from a fate that it is spinning toward.

**darb72** · 07-07-2020, 06:00 PM

Originally Posted by The Excellector

Most African Americans want reform, not to defund the police. The media doesn’t speak for us, has never spoken for us and will never speak for us. The media speaks for the media. When enough people get tired of it and stop consuming it, they will change things.

If there’s one issue throughout all of this that most African Americans have been frustrated about, it’s the idea that these are isolated incidents. No, these are not isolated incidents, before technology reached this point, many African Americans tried to bring light to these deep-rooted issues and a lot of people used the lack of evidence as an excuse to declare that it’s not a problem at all. Now that the technology is out people have no choice but to acknowledge issues. Yet, want to make it out as if these are just very isolated bad apple incidents. They’re not.

Outside of that, we know that we need the police.

As an aside, the other topic of discussion has been the amount of black on black crime. While some of us indeed agree with the sentiment behind that argument, not all of us live in the hood. Not all of us live in the projects. Not all of us are surrounded by drug infested areas of crime. Some of us did not grow up around many others of our own race. But it doesn’t matter where we live, we’re still black, and can face this sort of mistreatment from the police. And someone shouldn’t be condemned to keep their mouth shut just because there’s black on black crime when no one else is held to that standard.

That’s about it. We know that we all need police. We want looters arrested.

Stop going crazy over the media. It’s it’s own entity.

They are isolated. 28 unarmed blacks were killed by police officers in 2019 according to Mapping Police Violence which is laughably misusing the phrase "unarmed". https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/nationaltrends
That's out of millions of interactions with the police.https://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=pbdetail&iid=6406

Let's just say there are a million interactions between blacks and police during a year. I'm intentionally going with a very low estimate because I hate math. That gives us .0028% of being black, unarmed and killed by the police if you are actually interacting with the police. There are 37 million blacks living in America but there's no chance in Hell I try to figure out that percentage. I know we have to put one more zero in the figure, so .00028%. That is the very definition of an isolated incident.

The obvious goal is to get down to no police brutality, but the claim it's widespread or systemic is provably false.

**owknows** · 07-07-2020, 06:39 PM

I would like to see statistics regarding the number of unarmed people killed by the police in the absence of an underlying felony being committed.

In other words, how many of these people were in the act of committing a crime when they were killed?

Not that this justifies the action ... but I'd like to know whether simply choosing not to commit felonies significantly lowers your odds of being killed by the police.

**bandc** · 07-08-2020, 01:28 AM

Originally Posted by wickedsolo

I see it like this:

1) The extreme left wants to totally eradicate law enforcement.
2) Politicians are politicizing this and pandering to the extreme left for political capital.
3) The average American believes law enforcement is a must have.
4) The average American believes most law enforcement officers are good people that mean well and care about their job.
5) Most Americans want to see changes happen within the law enforcement industry - ie, better training, better candidate screening, better employment evaluations, less tolerance for shitty cops.

The extreme left does not believe that. Most of the far left fall under Bernie's ideology. Eradicating police is a non-starter.

**bandc** · 07-08-2020, 01:48 AM

Eradicating police is some dumb hype-phrase used by establishment centrists to create boogeyman talking points for the right wing.

This is what we want to eliminate:

https://twitter.com/tomgara/status/1280313326887677953

That and cases like George Floyd's killer who had 18 or 19 complaints and yet nothing was done about it.

That type of behavior among cops is rampant. And guess what! None of those incidents show up in your stats! The black community has been trying to tell the world that all that harassment hasn't been captured by the numbers.

It is NOT just one or two bad apples. Fellow cops sit and watch bad cops do nothing.

**DrawTheLine** · 07-08-2020, 04:08 AM

Seems that white liberals are the ones who don’t want the police. They seem to think they know what’s right for black people.

https://youtu.be/oi4Ad_eg8JA

**wickedsolo** · 07-08-2020, 07:04 AM

Originally Posted by bandc

The extreme left does not believe that. Most of the far left fall under Bernie's ideology. Eradicating police is a non-starter.

Yea, you’re just flat out wrong.

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**wickedsolo** · 07-08-2020, 07:06 AM

Originally Posted by DrawTheLine

Seems that white liberals are the ones who don’t want the police. They seem to think they know what’s right for black people.

https://youtu.be/oi4Ad_eg8JA

That’s true. They think Black Americans are dumb.

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**DitkasSausage** · 07-08-2020, 09:11 AM

Originally Posted by ddr_jr

Nothing new here. Most people want the police reformed not removed. It's a distraction to even say that people are for removing the police. Those are the edge cases.

The one poll question about Eric Garner..."Stop by any means", was misleading....because I'm sure the responders assumed legal any means. Not by using illegal choke hold.

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"It's a distraction to even say that people are for removing the police"

Are you REALLY that obtuse? This sentence alone is 100% proof you are lying or you are a complete moron, and nothing in-between. I'm 100% serious on that too. There are entire cities in the United States defunding and abandoning police forces entirely. BLM is directly calling for it. Mayors of every major city are discussing it. Portland and Seattle are actually voting on it. NYC flat out cut entire crime divisions already and in those sectors, crime immediately shot up over 200% year over year.

In fact... you are in the suburban minority of people that are even saying what you are saying. This is a horrible lie used in the suburbs to convince soccer moms that it isn't THAT bad. It IS that bad and you are either a vessel of hate for spreading it, or you are completely blind and ignorant to what is actually REALLY happening.

I get it... we disagree on a lot... but this is the first time you have ever actually pissed me off with something so ignorant. What you are saying is demonstrably a lie, and I know you are smart enough to know that.