Coronavirus Hypocrisy Timeline (part 1)

[2bynight]

Your dismissal of evidence which does not confirm your bias is duly noted.

As for Florida... I think spring break idiots cramming onto beaches and rubbing up against one another, coupled with protestors cramming the streets provides enough explanation for my satisfaction.

Mississippi...5 largest hospital ICUs have 0 patient beds left on Wednesday and some patients were sent to New Orleans. The evidence is that this pandemic is far from under control compared to many other countries and our government has totally mismanaged the response including sending out convoluted messaging from our highest office. The major fear most people had about Trump was that there would be some crisis and he would not have the aptitude to handle it if he was elected. Lo and behold we now have the worst possible president for the worst possible crisis. Someone who does not believe in science is in charge.

[BcRaven]

Cause they (Imperial County California) are racist

OR perhaps they don't have this at their border :




... Bc

[owknows]

Mississippi...5 largest hospital ICUs have 0 patient beds left on Wednesday and some patients were sent to New Orleans. The evidence is that this pandemic is far from under control compared to many other countries and our government has totally mismanaged the response including sending out convoluted messaging from our highest office. The major fear most people had about Trump was that there would be some crisis and he would not have the aptitude to handle it if he was elected. Lo and behold we now have the worst possible president for the worst possible crisis. Someone who does not believe in science is in charge.

I don't discount the idea that cases are surging elsewhere.

Perhaps even in relation to poor mask compliance. I'm a pretty religious mask-wearer. (you seem pretty desperate to prove something to me that I don't really challenge)

But I think there is general agreement that the worst of the surge is happening in California, Arizona, and Texas

And it seems pretty certain that a LOT of the surge in California, Arizona, and Texas is directly attributable to people from Mexico crossing the border in search of medical care.

This is being reported widely by left-biased media in California, and Nationwide.

What is it that makes you uncomfortable about admitting this? Is it that a wall would have prevented it?

Or is it something else?

[2bynight]

I don't discount the idea that cases are surging elsewhere.

Perhaps even in relation to poor mask compliance. I'm a pretty religious mask-wearer. (you seem pretty desperate to prove something to me that I don't really challenge)

But I think there is general agreement that the worst of the surge is happening in California, Arizona, and Texas

And it seems pretty certain that a LOT of the surge in California, Arizona, and Texas is directly attributable to people from Mexico crossing the border in search of medical care.

This is being reported widely by left-biased media in California, and Nationwide.

What is it that makes you uncomfortable about admitting this? Is it that a wall would have prevented it?

Or is it something else?

I can readily state that cases from the border are coming over here for treatment and you can have border area hospitals overwhelmed by that as well as our own patient load. That does not explain FL, MS, and many other areas. I applaud you wearing a mask. I do the same. Lets talk about mixed messages. Trump just visits Miami-Dade area, people greet him wearing masks - he does not wear a mask. What kind of a message does that send to his base supporters? That it is ok not to wear a mask because if the president doesn't need it I don't need it. You are intelligent and understand why a mask is needed. Many of his supporters either follow his lead or say I will not be controlled by the government so I'm not going to wear one. The idiot protesters not wearing masks are to blame too. This situation would not surprise me in the least: In the next 2 to 3 months Trump gets the virus, is placed in a hospital, then Pence takes over. The man is just asking to get sick with his behavior.

[owknows]

I can readily state that cases from the border are coming over here for treatment and you can have border area hospitals overwhelmed by that as well as our own patient load.

And of course you (accepting the veracity of the CNN article) would also accept the point that these border hospitals (having become overwhelmed) ship their patients to other hospitals elsewhere in the state. Creating a statewide problem in each case.

That does not explain FL, MS, and many other areas.

Of course not. None of these explanations are monolithic.

I applaud you wearing a mask. I do the same. Lets talk about mixed messages. Trump just visits Miami-Dade area, people greet him wearing masks - he does not wear a mask. What kind of a message does that send to his base supporters? That it is ok not to wear a mask because if the president doesn't need it I don't need yet.

Perhaps. But perhaps there's another explanation. Perhaps (as he has been from the beginning of this outbreak) the president sees himself as having to be concerned with more than just the medical aspects of the current situation. Perhaps the president also has to concern himself with the economy. And the morale of the people. And defeatism being piped into every American living room. About a press so hostile to his every word, that they would seek to discredit a pharmaceutical therapy simply because he said it might have some benefit. I mean think about that... a press corp so obsessed with "Orange Man Bad" that they would seek to discredit a drug therapy simply because the president mentioned it... on the very DAY he mentioned it (even as it was the primary front line therapy in use in the country... which at the time it was...) Curiously... it is quietly STILL.

Think about these things when you ask yourself why the President might do some of the things he does. Perhaps he considers not wearing a mask to be a signal of American defiance and perseverance in the face of a serious challenge. I don't know. I honestly don't think it was a big deal to anyone but those already predisposed to hate the guy's guts.

You are intelligent and understand why a mask is needed. Many of his supporters either follow his lead or say I will not be controlled by the government so I'm not going to wear one. The idiot protesters not wearing masks are to blame too. This situation would not surprise me in the least: In the next 2 to 3 months Trump gets the virus, is placed in a hospital, then Pence takes over. The man is just asking to get sick with his behavior.

I think this is at least a balanced criticism of those who chose not to wear masks. And admirable for it.

I wonder if in retrospect, we might also be willing to concede that those who carried their "Build Bridges not Walls" signs, and demanded that we eliminate borders and enforcement, might also have some blood on their hands.

And that perhaps Trump was right.

[2bynight]

I wonder if in retrospect, we might also be willing to concede that those who carried their "Build Bridges not Walls" signs, and demanded that we eliminate borders and enforcement, might also have some blood on their hands.

And that perhaps Trump was right.

I will say this much - the wall between Israel and the Palestinians have saved countless Israeli lives. However, I don't believe people are flooding in from south of the border with the sole intention of murdering US citizens like the Pals want to do to Israeli's.

[owknows]

I will say this much - the wall between Israel and the Palestinians have saved countless Israeli lives. However, I don't believe people are flooding in from south of the border with the sole intention of murdering US citizens like the Pals want to do to Israeli's.

No.

They are currently flooding in for free medical care at your expense.

They have been flooding in for jobs, social services, welfare, school, housing vouchers, EBT cards, and medical care, at your expense.

Any criminal activity beyond their being here and placing a tax burden upon all of us is a secondary "enrichment" to the culture.

I have nothing against Mexicans. Most work hard, and attempt to provide for their families. These are admirable characteristics.

But if we cannot control our borders, we are not a nation.

[darb72]

Assume some of the deaths that are being reported are erroneously attributed to Covid. Do you believe alcohol poisoning or some other condition is responsible for floods of people being currently hospitalized where hospitals would normally never see such an influx? C'mon man, we are in a pandemic - don't let a few outliers get in the way of common sense of what is occurring. You only have to listen to the ER doctors talk about what is happening in their hospitals to understand Covid is deadly serious. Listen to the people on the front lines on the ground, that is the truth.

As far as death rates, it does not take some huge leap to know NYC was always going to be hit hardest based on population densities thickly clustered in apartments. That said, look at NYC stats now compared to TX and FL. Those other states started conducting business as usual and opening up way before it was prudent and their stats went ballistic. When you have a republican governor of TX now asking people to stay home - what does that say? When Miami Beach is closed - what does that say?

You specifically said

There are many posters who don't even believe the death stats saying - well - they had something else that was going to kill them so it got blamed on Covid anyway and got counted. People have their heads in the sand if they do not take this stuff seriously.

There are numerous examples of Wuhan-flu being listed as the cause of death when it wasn't.

Miami is in part one of the DeSantis's re-opening plan. It and a few other beaches were shut down during the Fourth of July weekend until July 7th.

[2bynight]

You specifically said


There are numerous examples of Wuhan-flu being listed as the cause of death when it wasn't.

Miami is in part one of the DeSantis's re-opening plan. It and a few other beaches were shut down during the Fourth of July weekend until July 7th.

What are you trying to infer here? OK, maybe some deaths are not from Covid. Are you indicating Covid is not that serious because death statistics are being artificially inflated from wrong causes? Out of more than 130k Americans dead with Covid as the cause - is there truly something new to be gleaned about Covid if 5000 less died from something else? Or do you think the count is off by magnitudes and we don't even have 100k dead from Covid? What is the bottom line - that Covid is not that deadly and should not be taken as seriously as its been taken?

[darb72]

What are you trying to infer here? OK, maybe some deaths are not from Covid. Are you indicating Covid is not that serious because death statistics are being artificially inflated from wrong causes? Out of more than 130k Americans dead with Covid as the cause - is there truly something new to be gleaned about Covid if 5000 less died from something else? Or do you think the count is off by magnitudes and we don't even have 100k dead from Covid? What is the bottom line - that Covid is not that deadly and should not be taken as seriously as its been taken?

Out of 130k dead, 22k came from a city of six million people. Roughly 10% of the people who got the virus in New York City, died. New Jersey accounted for another 16k deaths, or 10% of people infected.

There have been 3,240,000 confirmed cases of Wuhan flu in America with 136,000 deaths. Just for funsies let's subtract New York and New Jersey from the totals to see what we get. 2,658,000 total cases with 89,000 deaths. Admittedly I'm not great at math, but a quick glance tells me that death rate ain't 10%. Not even close, really. 3%, maybe? Understand that New York and New Jersey contain less than 10% of the U.S. population. Texas has a larger population than both of them, combined. Yet they account for 34.56% of the deaths in America. And yes, if 5,000 people are listed as dying from Wuhan flu died from something else, that would skew the percentages a decent amount.

COVID is deadly more to the elderly and those with weakened immune systems just like regular flu. People have built up immunity to seasonal flu over the centuries so symptoms aren't as bad. Wuhan flu just made the jump from bats to humans (thank you, leftists) last year which means there is no herd immunity. It takes time.

[2bynight]

Out of 130k dead, 22k came from a city of six million people. Roughly 10% of the people who got the virus in New York City, died. New Jersey accounted for another 16k deaths, or 10% of people infected.

There have been 3,240,000 confirmed cases of Wuhan flu in America with 136,000 deaths. Just for funsies let's subtract New York and New Jersey from the totals to see what we get. 2,658,000 total cases with 89,000 deaths. Admittedly I'm not great at math, but a quick glance tells me that death rate ain't 10%. Not even close, really. 3%, maybe? Understand that New York and New Jersey contain less than 10% of the U.S. population. Texas has a larger population than both of them, combined. Yet they account for 34.56% of the deaths in America. And yes, if 5,000 people are listed as dying from Wuhan flu died from something else, that would skew the percentages a decent amount.

COVID is deadly more to the elderly and those with weakened immune systems just like regular flu. People have built up immunity to seasonal flu over the centuries so symptoms aren't as bad. Wuhan flu just made the jump from bats to humans (thank you, leftists) last year which means there is no herd immunity. It takes time.

Darb, no one ever said 10% death rate. You said maybe 3% and I think that may be high - maybe its really 2%. However, even 2% death rate is astronomical when used as an umbrella death rate for the world. Yes, its more deadly to the elderly and those with underlying health conditions. I had a relative die from Covid in April and she was elderly. However, I have a buddy who almost died from it in March and this guy ran 10Ks and lifted, no underlying health conditions. He is also in his 50s, not over 65. 3 months after he got it he is still suffering side effects. Even without death, this crap still has the ability to sideline people from weeks to months after they get it. No one knows long term effects from it either - if it has damaging lasting neurological and organ impact.

[owknows]

Can I ask you what you think the total impact of Coronavirus has been on the normally expected death rate?

It is actually somewhat surprising.