Vote for Ravens ‘All Time’ Team

**WNCRavensFan** · 06-28-2020, 09:09 PM

Originally Posted by Captain Silver

How about the all time worst Ravens team? I have the corners covered (pun intended because they couldn't cover a golfball with a circus tent)

DeRon Jenkins and Antonio Langham. AKA 'the burn unit'.

There's got to be a minimum qualification. Like number of games started or played in or something. Otherwise Marc Anthony would be one of my starting CBs.

**Greg** · 06-28-2020, 09:57 PM

Originally Posted by QtR Nevermore

I'm a bit baffled that anyone would vote for Flacco as the Ravens all time best QB. Yes, he won a Super Bowl. Yes, that was nice but in no way does it make him a better QB than Lamar.

At Flacco's peak there was discussion about whether he was a top 10 QB or not, whereas anyone putting Lamar outside the top 3 is an idiot. Last year he was in the top 1.

Jackson has to win a post-season game, which I believe he will. But until then . . .

**WNCRavensFan** · 06-29-2020, 08:01 AM

Originally Posted by Greg

Jackson has to win a post-season game, which I believe he will. But until then . . .

Joe Flacco's teams (all Baltimore) are 10-5 in the postseason including 7 true road wins which is an NFL record. I think we still take that for granted.

**Bhcforlife** · 06-29-2020, 09:08 AM

Originally Posted by AQKingRaven

The thing about these All Time lists. If we are talking best players then dont bring stats and careers into the mix because once you do youre forced to simply look at the numbers and pick the best. If youre going to make a career argument for Falcco then make it for every position or u dont have an argument. But thats boring af so we are talking BEST PLAYER not career. Its Lamar Jackson.

Anyway I take extreme issue with any list not including Jamal Lewis or Peter Boulware. Imagine Boulware on this years squad good lord.

If you are going to advocate for Lamar, and say that you are talking best player, you can't turn around and then include Boulware over Dumervil. Dumervil was a better player than Boulware, by pretty much any numbers you want to look at. So which is it? Seems to me you are picking and choosing which of your own rules you want to follow.

You'd also have to pick Sharpe over Heap, and Sr. over one of Mason or Boldin (this one is not as controversial, probably).

**WNCRavensFan** · 06-29-2020, 10:24 AM

Originally Posted by Bhcforlife

If you are going to advocate for Lamar, and say that you are talking best player, you can't turn around and then include Boulware over Dumervil. Dumervil was a better player than Boulware, by pretty much any numbers you want to look at.

Dem's fightin' words!

During his time in Baltimore Dumervil wasn't even on the field on run downs. Boulware had seven straight seasons that were better than Dumvervil's second best season as a Raven. Then Boulware blew his knee and that was it.

Boulware was the better Raven and it's not close.

**Bhcforlife** · 06-29-2020, 10:57 AM

Originally Posted by WNCRavensFan

Dem's fightin' words!

During his time in Baltimore Dumervil wasn't even on the field on run downs. Boulware had seven straight seasons that were better than Dumvervil's second best season as a Raven. Then Boulware blew his knee and that was it.

Boulware was the better Raven and it's not close.

I agree, Boulware was the better Raven (though I personally pick JJ), and it's not close, but this is a response to the guy saying it should be "best player".

If we are talking best players then dont bring stats and careers into the mix

...and IMO, Dumervil > Boulware as a player. Boulware is of course the better Raven, I would never suggest otherwise.

Full disclosure, I did not see prime Boulware. I became a fan in 2002 and my exposure to games pre-2002 is mostly highlights and individual games here and there. So I never saw Boulware at his peak in 2001...but the same point I am trying to make could be made w/ Sharpe/Heap.

**WNCRavensFan** · 06-29-2020, 11:12 AM

Ooh. Well shit, I'd put Deion Sanders at CB in that case.

**Bhcforlife** · 06-29-2020, 11:13 AM

Originally Posted by WNCRavensFan

Ooh. Well shit, I'd put Deion Sanders at CB in that case.

Damn, great point, I totally forgot about Deion LOL

**HotInHere** · 06-29-2020, 11:53 AM

Originally Posted by AQKingRaven

The thing about these All Time lists. If we are talking best players then dont bring stats and careers into the mix because once you do youre forced to simply look at the numbers and pick the best. If youre going to make a career argument for Falcco then make it for every position or u dont have an argument. But thats boring af so we are talking BEST PLAYER not career. Its Lamar Jackson.

It's not that black-and-white though. Just like for the Hall of Fame. Clearly peak value matters, and career value also matters. You can't just play one awesome game and get in the HoF. Also, you can't play like shit for 25 years and get in. It's a combination.

At this point, Lamar is Bert Jones. Bert won an MVP. Roger Staubach, Troy Aikman, and Jim Kelly never won an MVP. But you'd put all three of those QBs above Bert on the all-time list, no? Even though Bert at his best was better than those three guys at their bests?

Here's where I think this whole board agrees: it is almost certain that at some point, Lamar Jackson will be unanimously above Joe Flacco as the franchise's all-time QB. It definitely didn't happen after Lamar's first game. It didn't happen after Lamar's first season. That tipping point is where people differ. Some think it has already happened. Others think it will take more time.

The question is, if Lamar never played another down of football, who would you say is the Ravens best QB of all-time? Right now, he has had one extraordinary season. But by that measurement, I'd have to put Steve McNair above Joe Flacco.

**Ortizer** · 06-29-2020, 12:10 PM

Originally Posted by Bhcforlife

I agree, Boulware was the better Raven (though I personally pick JJ), and it's not close, but this is a response to the guy saying it should be "best player".

...and IMO, Dumervil > Boulware as a player. Boulware is of course the better Raven, I would never suggest otherwise.

Full disclosure, I did not see prime Boulware. I became a fan in 2002 and my exposure to games pre-2002 is mostly highlights and individual games here and there. So I never saw Boulware at his peak in 2001...but the same point I am trying to make could be made w/ Sharpe/Heap.

So what if you just look at who was the better player as a raven? Don't worry about seasons on other teams, or longevity with the Ravens, but just peak value.

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**QtR Nevermore** · 06-29-2020, 12:21 PM

Originally Posted by Greg

Jackson has to win a post-season game, which I believe he will. But until then . . .

I don't like quarterback wins arguments much in a team sport. If Lamar remains as good as he was in 2019 for ten years but never wins a playoff game, due to some hypothetical collapse of the rest of the roster, would he not be the Ravens best ever QB?

I'll give all the credit to Flacco for his incredible 2012 playoff run, but to count some of his earlier playoff wins as Flacco wins is stretching it. Likewise, Lamar wasn't great against Tennessee but that's true of the rest of the team, too. (Yanda wasn't great in that game but he'll be in every single vote.) San Diego was primarily on the O line. They weren't Lamar losses.

At it's simplest, if it's all down to the QB, is Tannehill better than Lamar because he beat him in the playoffs?

**Bhcforlife** · 06-29-2020, 12:30 PM

Originally Posted by Ortizer

So what if you just look at who was the better player as a raven? Don't worry about seasons on other teams, or longevity with the Ravens, but just peak value.

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I think any way one wants to look at it is fine, and seems like some are looking at it this way, I'm just saying if you do look at it that way, you have to look at the entire thing that way, not just use it as a reason to pick LJ over JF...you have to also pick Andrews over Heap/Sharpe, Adams over Gregg, Dumervil/Boulware if going by best season with us is open to debate IMO, Mosley is probably your 2nd LB over Scott or Sharper, etc...which is all fine, this is a subjective thing, just be consistent lol.