Adam Gase

**The Excellector** · 06-25-2020, 01:43 PM

There is a lot more Management involved in being a Head Coach, compared to a Coordinator. As a Head Coach, you have to manage your entire staff and your entire squad. That takes unique skills.

**JimZipCode** · 06-25-2020, 02:39 PM

Originally Posted by guymf4

... And I've never been a fan of either as our OC. I have many times complained about our hiring practices regarding [offensive?] coordinators during the Harbaugh era. Kubiak and Roman are really the only good ones.

False, and revisionism. Cam was a coup when we hired him. We celebrated: amazing track record. And we loved him during Joe's rookie season, with the 3-headed monster and the trip to the AFCC. He outstayed his usefulness, but that doesn't mean he wasn't good his first three years here, and specifically good for Joe.

Caldwell has one pretty special thing on his resume as Ravens OC, that completely absolves him from all criticism.

**The Excellector** · 06-25-2020, 02:41 PM

Cam Cameron as a coordinator, works best with young QBs in their first or second season. However, he's also a guy you should cut ties with after that second season. Which, the Ravens should have done and the signs were there. Joe was frustrated with him. Then, Zorn came in, those two clicked and were both frustrated with him. Then, Zorn got fired, despite improving Joe's mechanics significantly, and Joe actually went public with his frustration. If I can remember correctly, it was the same way with Philip Rivers.

**ReedInTheWind** · 06-25-2020, 03:01 PM

Originally Posted by The Excellector

Cam Cameron as a coordinator, works best with young QBs in their first or second season. However, he's also a guy you should cut ties with after that second season. Which, the Ravens should have done and the signs were there. Joe was frustrated with him. Then, Zorn came in, those two clicks and were both frustrated with him. Then, Zorn got fired, despite improving Joe's mechanics significantly, and Joe actually went public with his frustration. If I can remember correctly, it was the same way with Philip Rivers.

I've always kind of wondered about the QB coach/Off. Coordinator relationship around the league. Not just what happened with Zorn and Cameron. It seems ripe for tension when things aren't going well. The QB coach probably has a better idea about what the QB does best, and the QB probably agrees. Then when the Offensive Coordinator calls plays that aren't designed to match the QB skillset, tensions spill over. If those two assistants aren't in sync the whole thing falls apart.

**mmi16** · 06-25-2020, 03:20 PM

Originally Posted by QtR Nevermore

They were 6-2 against bad teams and back up quarterbacks. That 6-2 finish was more a product of scheduling and luck rather than good performances.

I quite like Darnold, though. I think he'll end up as the second best QB in that class.

The bad teams are still NFL teams - not the Little Sisters of the Poor JV squad.

**LukeDaniel** · 06-25-2020, 05:31 PM

I actually consider it a compliment to Gase's coaching ability that, despite a huge talent void, he is 30-34 as a NFL head coach.

**Ravenswintitle** · 06-25-2020, 05:41 PM

Originally Posted by The Excellector

Cam Cameron as a coordinator, works best with young QBs in their first or second season. However, he's also a guy you should cut ties with after that second season. Which, the Ravens should have done and the signs were there. Joe was frustrated with him. Then, Zorn came in, those two clicked and were both frustrated with him. Then, Zorn got fired, despite improving Joe's mechanics significantly, and Joe actually went public with his frustration. If I can remember correctly, it was the same way with Philip Rivers.

**JimZipCode** · 06-25-2020, 05:50 PM

Originally Posted by LukeDaniel

I actually consider it a compliment to Gase's coaching ability that, despite a huge talent void, he is 30-34 as a NFL head coach.

1. Gase cannot be giving a pass for a talent deficit, if he's driving off great players like Jamal Adams. Gase has had a hand in creating the talent deficit, thru incompetence + being a prick.

2. We see from Ryan Tannehill's performance that the "talent deficit" might not be real. Seems just as likely that his teams' talent is underperforming, because of poor coaching.

**guymf4** · 06-25-2020, 05:56 PM

Originally Posted by JimZipCode

False, and revisionism. Cam was a coup when we hired him. We celebrated: amazing track record. And we loved him during Joe's rookie season, with the 3-headed monster and the trip to the AFCC. He outstayed his usefulness, but that doesn't mean he wasn't good his first three years here, and specifically good for Joe.

Caldwell has one pretty special thing on his resume as Ravens OC, that completely absolves him from all criticism.

Well, I want even in the board here when we hired Cam. And yes, i didn't have a lot of complaints in the first few years of Flacco. If anything, I was delighted we were going to the playoffs every year and finally find our QB after the Boller and McNair years (nothing against McNair just knew he was at the end of his career). But yes, he ultimately wasn't great. Caldwell won us a superbowl and the offense quickly fizzled. Kubiak was great. Trestman was another bad HC turned bad OC hire. Then Marty. In that same time-frame we were hiring these ex HCs, guys like Kyle Shanahan were being hired to be OC in Atlanta. Sure, I'm cherry picking that one, but I still feel that not a lot went into the talent search for OC in those hires. I'm sure some of you more knowledgeable than myself can think of OC hires in that time frame that we never looked at.

I think we were lucky to get Roman after he got axed in Buffalo. Certainly he wasn't the result of a massive HR search for available coaches.

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**The Excellector** · 06-25-2020, 07:37 PM

Originally Posted by Ravenswintitle

God Almighty................

**QtR Nevermore** · 06-25-2020, 09:15 PM

Originally Posted by JimZipCode

2. We see from Ryan Tannehill's performance that the "talent deficit" might not be real. Seems just as likely that his teams' talent is underperforming, because of poor coaching.

Kenyan Drake, Minkah Fitzpatrick, Laremy Tunsil, Devante Parker, it looks like the Jets could vastly improve their roster just by getting rid of him.

**Ortizer** · 06-27-2020, 06:43 PM

Originally Posted by The Excellector

There is a lot more Management involved in being a Head Coach, compared to a Coordinator. As a Head Coach, you have to manage your entire staff and your entire squad. That takes unique skills.

Kind of like in business. Your best individual performers may be terrible managers.

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