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**MinnesotaRaven** · 06-19-2020, 05:36 PM

Originally Posted by NCRAVEN

If I’m wrong I’m okay with it. Can you show me I am?

I've heard people say that some Native Americans are ok with some things. It's not black and white... There is a difference between the "Redskins" and something like Florida State "Seminoles", Eastern Michigan Hurons (along the Huron River), and even the KC Chiefs. You can argue that those pay tribute to a regional culture. The term "Redskin" is just a flat out racist slur.

**NCRAVEN** · 06-19-2020, 05:36 PM

Originally Posted by RedSkins Fury

I've heard people say that some Native Americans are ok with some things. It's not black and white... There is a difference between the "Redskins" and something like Florida State "Seminoles", Eastern Michigan Hurons (along the Huron River), and even the KC Chiefs. You can argue that those pay tribute to a regional culture. The term "Redskin" is just a flat out racist slur.

How is that racist?

**MinnesotaRaven** · 06-19-2020, 05:38 PM

Originally Posted by NCRAVEN

What does that have to do with native Americans not being offended by the Redskins name?

It doesn't, it's teams and organizations starting to stand up and take responsibility (and action) to remove aspects of their racist past. We are starting to see a pattern.

**MinnesotaRaven** · 06-19-2020, 05:40 PM

Originally Posted by NCRAVEN

If I’m wrong I’m okay with it. Can you show me I am?

Here's a peer reviewed article in scientific publication for you (not a poll from a DC Newspaper).

https://news.berkeley.edu/2020/02/04...ascots-survey/

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs...urnalCode=sppa

**NCRAVEN** · 06-19-2020, 05:47 PM

Originally Posted by RedSkins Fury

Here's a peer reviewed article in scientific publication for you (not a poll from a DC Newspaper).

https://news.berkeley.edu/2020/02/04...ascots-survey/

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs...urnalCode=sppa

Peer reviewed scientific poll? People opinions on a matter are not something science can study. I can find just as many polls as you can that says the opposite.

**BcRaven** · 06-19-2020, 06:12 PM

As an aside : The Cleveland Indians have removed "Chief Wahoo" (a caracature) from their uniforms and now have a block C :

I'm no ultra-liberal, but I do think "Redskins" portrays a negative connotation.
This may not be realistic, but if I were Snyder I'd get 5 or 6 possible names, and let people vote for their favorite. IIRC, didn't Art Modell do something similar when he couldn't take the name "Browns" with him to Baltimore?

Do I make sense to you? ... Bc

**MarkS** · 06-19-2020, 06:34 PM

Originally Posted by NCRAVEN

Peer reviewed scientific poll? People opinions on a matter are not something science can study. I can find just as many polls as you can that says the opposite.

WTH? Science can absolutely weigh in on the validity of opinion polls. The methodology used, which includes things like sample size & demographics, is entirely quantifiable. Biases in how the questions are phrased and presented are also highly relevant.

It's true there are any number of polls on this issue, and frankly most of them are shit, primarily because most are either sponsored by an interested party (the owner, the local paper), or an outsider with a likely bias (you really think UC Berkeley wasn't going to find a majority that were offended? Please.)

Reading through all of these, some strong trends do emerge though: Older native Americans are less likely to be offended than younger ones; Those who live off the reservation less offended than those who live on; And the overall numbers that consider the term offensive is generally increasing.

Given those trends, I think it's really just a matter of time. And it would be wise for Daniel Snyder to get out ahead of this issue, because if he doesn't, something or someone will force his hand. It is 100% a losing battle at this point, and It'll be really embarrassing for them if they change the logo AFTER some 1st-round draft pick decides he's just not going to wear that uniform, or some highly-coveted free agent announces he won't play for a team with that name.

ETA: Almost forgot about the poll: Snyder is stubborn as hell, and I really think it will take one or more players refusing to play for the team to force the issue, so it ain't happening this year. I think this off-season at the earliest, but probably sometime in 2022.

**NCRAVEN** · 06-19-2020, 06:39 PM

Originally Posted by MarkS

WTH? Science can absolutely weigh in on the validity of opinion polls. The methodology used, which includes things like sample size & demographics, is entirely quantifiable. Biases in how the questions are phrased and presented are also highly relevant.

It's true there are any number of polls on this issue, and frankly most of them are shit, primarily because most are either sponsored by an interested party (the owner, the local paper), or an outsider with a likely bias (you really think UC Berkeley wasn't going to find a majority that were offended? Please.)

Reading through all of these, some strong trends do emerge though: Older native Americans are less likely to be offended than younger ones; Those who live off the reservation less offended than those who live on; And the overall numbers that consider the term offensive is generally increasing.

Given those trends, I think it's really just a matter of time. And it would be wise for Daniel Snyder to get out ahead of this issue, because if he doesn't, something or someone will force his hand. It is 100% a losing battle at this point, and It'll be really embarrassing for them if they change the logo AFTER some 1st-round draft pick decides he's just not going to wear that uniform, or some highly-coveted free agent announces he won't play for a team with that name.

The validity of the poll sure. That’s not what I said though.

**darb72** · 06-19-2020, 06:53 PM

Originally Posted by NCRAVEN

What does that have to do with native Americans not being offended by the Redskins name?

A majority of my heritage is Native American. Redskins doesn't bother me at all. I can't tell someone else what to feel, but by the same token people don't get to tell me what I'm offended by.

**SouthSide** · 06-19-2020, 06:55 PM

You can find enough Black Trump supporters to fill a small stadium, but the vast majority of Black people do NOT like, love, or have any intention of voting for Trump.

So just because a Native American said that the Redskins mascot doesn't bother him/her, it doesn't mean that it isn't offensive to the majority of Native Americans.

That said, I think Snyder is dug in and won't back down. Snyder had already had the negative publicity and lawsuits. If he hasn't changed now, then he never will. And that will be his legacy - a racist name and LOTS of losing.

**NCRAVEN** · 06-19-2020, 07:29 PM

Originally Posted by SouthSide

You can find enough Black Trump supporters to fill a small stadium, but the vast majority of Black people do NOT like, love, or have any intention of voting for Trump.

So just because a Native American said that the Redskins mascot doesn't bother him/her, it doesn't mean that it isn't offensive to the majority of Native Americans.

That said, I think Snyder is dug in and won't back down. Snyder had already had the negative publicity and lawsuits. If he hasn't changed now, then he never will. And that will be his legacy - a racist name and LOTS of losing.

How is the name racist?