Lamar from Empty Formations

**HbgPARavenfan** · 06-05-2020, 06:35 PM

Long term I don't like lamars legs being the hot read. I'd much rather have disposable players take a hit than the qb. But spreading the field and taking advantage is something that has trickled up from high school to college and now the NFL

**SquirrelDance** · 06-06-2020, 01:06 PM

The other way Lamar makes this play so dangerous isn’t just that he has insane pocket presence and mobility to make the throws while his blockers are overloaded on a blitz. It’s that sending all the receivers downfield clears a huge area for him to pull down and run if the throw isn’t there. If the defense keeps a spy, that’s one less defender on receivers...and Lamar can beat them anyway. The article shows a couple of those long scramble runs.

This is a fundamental math problem for a defense...I don’t even know how you’re supposed to defend it. Lamar is just a cheat code, it’s like playing with an extra player on the field.

**edromeo** · 06-07-2020, 01:59 PM

Pushing the idea of empty formations and Lamar as the checkdown even further:

@ 9:00 mark

Some of this was discussed in another thread that I can't find.

But the idea is to tag an actual designed run call with the empty formations when the QB gets a box count of 5 or less defenders. Basically turning any empty formation to a potential inside zone read run. And the OL block it like a run and not a pass. I would make a key coaching point of make sure the OL stay within the legal frame work of blocking during a pass and that way still keep the pass routes viable.

**edromeo** · 06-08-2020, 03:46 PM

Originally Posted by HbgPARavenfan

Long term I don't like lamars legs being the hot read. I'd much rather have disposable players take a hit than the qb. But spreading the field and taking advantage is something that has trickled up from high school to college and now the NFL

Originally Posted by JimZipCode

Piece on PFF:

Not five verts. It's just as JTO said: Lamar IS the checkdown.

I meant to say this earlier, sometimes the Ravens call all-go with a checkdown. It's not like Lamar is always the checkdown on empty all verts.

But, I have nothing against it. Lamar's dynamic, game changing running ability, whether through designed runs or scrambles, is the weapon that lifts this offense up. Therefore i'm in favor of giving him running opportunities.

**JimZipCode** · 06-09-2020, 10:21 AM

Originally Posted by edromeo

I meant to say this earlier, sometimes the Ravens call all-go with a checkdown. It's not like Lamar is always the checkdown on empty all verts.

For example, I just saw this one on a highlight reel:

Game 11 vs Houston, Q2 2:14, from empty in the red zone we ran 4 verts with the outside receiver on the trips side (right side) breaking in under the umbrella of the coverage. That player might have been Ingram? The pass went to Andrews up the seam for a TD; but this was "almost all go" with a checkdown.

**organizedchaos21** · 06-09-2020, 01:15 PM

Originally Posted by JimZipCode

For example, I just saw this one on a highlight reel:

Game 11 vs Houston, Q2 2:14, from empty in the red zone we ran 4 verts with the outside receiver on the trips side (right side) breaking in under the umbrella of the coverage. That player might have been Ingram? The pass went to Andrews up the seam for a TD; but this was "almost all go" with a checkdown.

Q2, 02:18 is Edwards (I don't have a snap at 2:14).

**jonboy79** · 06-15-2020, 08:40 AM

Originally Posted by JimZipCode

For example, I just saw this one on a highlight reel:

New JTO video on YouTube about Lamar just dropped.
Trigger warning, it is a video discussing how much better he can be, by showing plays he missed.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

**JimZipCode** · 06-15-2020, 09:50 AM

Originally Posted by jonboy79

New JTO video on YouTube about Lamar just dropped.

Awesome!

Originally Posted by jonboy79

Trigger warning, it is a video discussing how much better he can be, by showing plays he missed.

His vid on the Titans game has plenty of that. Also the recent 3rd-&-long vid here.

Thanks for the warning, though.

**jonboy79** · 06-15-2020, 10:55 AM

Originally Posted by JimZipCode

Awesome!

His vid on the Titans game has plenty of that. Also the recent 3rd-&-long vid here.

Thanks for the warning, though.

You are welcome, I am subscribed and knew you would be interested.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

**JimZipCode** · 06-15-2020, 11:46 AM

Originally Posted by jonboy79

You are welcome, I am subscribed and knew you would be interested.

Some schematic stuff too – the bit about the back not getting out into a checkdown route, even against a 4-man rush. Mistake by Ingram? Seems more likely to be coaching.

Remarkable that Lamar was so good last year, but there are still clearly-definable ways for him to improve and take "the next step".

**edromeo** · 06-16-2020, 12:27 PM

Originally Posted by edromeo

Pushing the idea of empty formations and Lamar as the checkdown even further:.....

Some of this was discussed in another thread that I can't find.

But the idea is to tag an actual designed run call with the empty formations when the QB gets a box count of 5 or less defenders. Basically turning any empty formation to a potential inside zone read run. And the OL block it like a run and not a pass. I would make a key coaching point of make sure the OL stay within the legal frame work of blocking during a pass and that way still keep the pass routes viable.

Looking back, the Ravens do have this concept in the playbook except they execute the 'run' aspect as a draw play with the OL in pass protection as opposed to the run look the Dak draws out above.