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  1. #169
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    Re: Rank your 16 starting AFC QBs

    Quote Originally Posted by edromeo View Post
    Watching the plays, I was surprised how few times the play-action actually got receivers open.

    Sure some of that is on Lamar missing throws or making the wrong read.
    But in the context of Lamar being better in almost every other category my take aways were:
    Play-action passes with a run game this good should get receivers more open more often.
    I speculate its a mix of defenses having a bead on playcalling tendencies and or dudes not getting open.
    I have a different set of suspicions.

    • Is there's a legacy of Lamar's old footwork problems? Fixed most places, but still some issues on play-action?
    • Do defenses not "respect" play-action because they're like, "Fuck it: please hand it off." It's safer for them if the ball is OUT of Lamar's hands.





  2. #170
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    Re: Rank your 16 starting AFC QBs

    Quote Originally Posted by JimZipCode View Post
    I have a different set of suspicions.

    • Is there's a legacy of Lamar's old footwork problems? Fixed most places, but still some issues on play-action?
    • Do defenses not "respect" play-action because they're like, "Fuck it: please hand it off." It's safer for them if the ball is OUT of Lamar's hands.
    Can't tell if your actually asking or not but...
    Talking about the film.
    I didn't see footwork being the cause of the issues on those plays. I saw Lamar throwing to receivers that weren't open, Lamar scrambling because I assume receivers weren't open and Lamar being off target/missing some throws.

    I've never heard of your second reason posited before. You know this as well as anyone, defenses typically try and stop the run regardless of whether or not your running well or running often. I think this is because defenses have been trained to react to run based on league wide history/expectations to run the ball on certain downs and distances.

    I think its more likely that a defense may have guessed a tendency then the defenses wholesale decided to play pass against the Ravens and concede the run.

    But, anything is possible.





  3. #171
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    Re: Rank your 16 starting AFC QBs

    Quote Originally Posted by edromeo View Post
    Good article, good timing:

    https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-2020-nf...corps-rankings

    Ranking every NFL receiving corps heading into the 2020 NFL season
    I really believe the Ravens pass catchers are going to be better than 25th by the end of the season. Fair chance they'll be rated significantly better. That starts with Hollywood Brown Mk II who has the potential to be just as good as Tyreek Hill.





  4. #172

    Re: Rank your 16 starting AFC QBs

    Quote Originally Posted by John Reglarperson View Post
    That list looks pretty good to me.

    You have Carr in the bottom half. How many times do teams give a 7th season as a starter when 5 of the 6 years as a starter with that team were losing seasons. I tried to find a situation like that and there's really only Archie Manning with the Saints.

    The Raiders have Mariota. Mariota had a winning record his 3 last years starting most of the games. Carr makes $20 Million a year, Mariota is making less than $10 Million.

    I'd cut Carr immediately, they'd save $15 Million. Keep the money, spend on Clowney, or add Cam Newton and pocket the difference or many other choices.
    I remember watching a prime time game the raiders was on.. there was a play that stuck with me. Raiders trailing, 4th and goal in the redzone. Might have been like a 4th and 7. Pocket collapses, Carr rolls right. He sees no one opens. He throws it out of bounds.. on a freaking 4th down play.

    After that, I just look at him as a stat passer lol. I hope mariota starts over him at some point during the season and Tannehill Carr. If there’s one thing about mariota, it’s that his teammates respect the hell out of him. Class act and only wants to win.





  5. Re: Rank your 16 starting AFC QBs

    Quote Originally Posted by Davesta View Post
    I remember watching a prime time game the raiders was on.. there was a play that stuck with me. Raiders trailing, 4th and goal in the redzone. Might have been like a 4th and 7. Pocket collapses, Carr rolls right. He sees no one opens. He throws it out of bounds.. on a freaking 4th down play.

    After that, I just look at him as a stat passer lol. I hope mariota starts over him at some point during the season and Tannehill Carr. If there’s one thing about mariota, it’s that his teammates respect the hell out of him. Class act and only wants to win.
    Carr is a pussy. 3rd and 5, he throws a 4 yard completion. This has been true since his first year.

    He should be cut immediately. Free up that $15 Million now. What are the Saints paying for Jameis Winston? Less than $5 Million. Not saying the Raiders can or should get Winston, but it tells the price of that particular QB. Cheap. Carr is way way overpaid, he should be cut, and the Raiders don't have to pay that money. Carr won't get anywhere near what he's been paid. Cam Newton would be cheaper than Carr. Between Mariota and Newton, one will be healthy, and the other - Cam Newton probably - would be sitting and getting more and more healthy. Or a one year deal with Clowney. Whatever it is, the Raiders are better off without Carr.





  6. #174

    Re: Rank your 16 starting AFC QBs

    Carr was ruined after that leg injury. Not the same guy





  7. #175

    Re: Rank your 16 starting AFC QBs

    Quote Originally Posted by WrongBaldy View Post
    Carr was ruined after that leg injury. Not the same guy
    Yeah, before that injury he was having an MVP caliber season and had the Raiders in the playoffs.
    Let's win the f**king game.
    Joe Flacco





  8. #176
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    Re: Rank your 16 starting AFC QBs

    Quote Originally Posted by Davesta View Post
    After that, I just look at him as a stat passer lol. I hope mariota starts over him at some point during the season and Tannehill Carr. If there’s one thing about mariota, it’s that his teammates respect the hell out of him. Class act and only wants to win.
    That would be an interesting storyline, especially if he leads the Raiders to the playoffs.





  9. #177
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    Re: Rank your 16 starting AFC QBs

    The NFL’s top runners against stacked boxes in 2019: Derrick Henry, Lamar Jackson and more
    https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-top-run...-lamar-jackson

    2. Lamar Jackson, Baltimore Ravens
    PFF Rushing Grade: 80.5

    As the only non-running back on the list, Jackson’s case is obviously unique. His 89-carry sample did come almost entirely on designed runs (82 of 89 rushing attempts), though, so it’s not as if the grade is buoyed heavily by scramble opportunities. No one was better at moving the chains than Jackson. He ran for a first down or touchdown on a league-high 39% of his carries against stacked boxes, and he was also one of the most effective runners in the league when it came to making defenders miss. Jackson forced 19 missed tackles on his 89 carries with eight or more defenders in the box.
    "Those corners...and those safeties are going to be one-on-one... and we got to make them pay for it," Harbs

    "I think he’d be[Lamar] the greatest player in the history of the game,” Young said





  10. #178
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    Re: Rank your 16 starting AFC QBs

    Quote Originally Posted by NjRavensFan View Post
    You come at me for claiming things that can’t be measured, but then give Lamar credit for making life easier for his RBs. What metric tangibly proves that to be true? Please don’t give me the Y/C before and after the switch in 2018 because they were completely different RBs.
    Gus Edwards 2018:

    Games Rush Yds YPC
    1-9 15 64 4.27
    10-16 122 654 5.36

    Same player, same season. Drastically different results with Joe as starter vs with Lamar as starter.

    Lamar is worth about a yard-per-carry on our RB's stats.




    Come on. You're pushing back by using an argument that you don't even believe. We know that a good dual-threat RB has a dramatic impact on the other backs in a team's rushing attack. We've known it since the three-headed-monster of Michael Vick + Warrick Dunne+ TJ Ducket took the Falcons to the conf champship game in 2004. It was underlined when Coin Kaepernick & friends obliterated the Packers in the divisional round in 2012.

    (Mina Kimes even suggests that it was a factor in Marshawn Lynch's success. She might have a point. Beast Mode suddenly went All-Pro in his sixth season in the league, when Russell Wilson arrived; the only season Lynch ever hit 5 ypc.)

    But suddenly it's not true, when it constitutes evidence that Lamar's total impact on a football game is greater than Mahomes' is? Ridiculous.





  11. #179
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    Re: Rank your 16 starting AFC QBs

    Quote Originally Posted by edromeo View Post
    Good article, good timing:

    https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-2020-nf...corps-rankings

    Ranking every NFL receiving corps heading into the 2020 NFL season
    Bill Barnell just released a similar study, with similar results:


    Ranking offensive weapons for all 32 NFL teams in 2020
    by Bill Barnwell · Jul 13, 2020
    https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/...cks-best-worst
    1. Kansas City Chiefs
    I'm confident Patrick Mahomes would have been a successful NFL quarterback regardless of where he landed, but it's not selling the superstar passer short to point out that he has had plenty of help. In addition to the coaching of Andy Reid, just look at those weapons rankings. The Chiefs surrounded Mahomes with talent before he took over as the full-time starter, and they have reaped the benefits.

    The Chiefs rank first for the second time in three years because they're so deep with receiving options. Travis Kelce is the NFL's most productive receiving tight end. Over his three seasons as a starter, Tyreek Hill is sixth in receiving yards and fourth in yards per route run among wide receivers. Sammy Watkins might not live up to the contract he signed or the expectations he had when he was drafted No. 4 overall in 2014, but he racked up 288 receiving yards when the Chiefs needed him in the playoffs, the second-highest total of the postseason. Mecole Hardman quietly averaged 1.90 yards per route run; he only caught 26 passes, but nearly 35% of them went for 20 or more yards, which was the fifth-highest rate in the league. Every one of these guys is a threat to score from anywhere on the field.

    You need to catch passes if you're going to play running back for Reid, and the Chiefs now have two backs who can do that. Damien Williams has generally been productive when healthy. He has had 15 games as Kansas City's primary back over the past two seasons, and in those contests, he has carried the ball 205 times for 1,006 yards (4.9 yards per carry), caught 61 passes for 498 additional yards and scored 19 touchdowns. That's basically Aaron Jones' 2019 regular season, and a significant chunk of Williams' work has come in the postseason.

    What put the Chiefs over the top, though, is the addition of first-round pick Clyde Edwards-Helaire. The major drop-off when the Chiefs cut Kareem Hunt and replaced him with Williams came in the receiving game. Only two backs in the nation averaged more yards per route run last season than the LSU star Edwards-Helaire, who is perfectly capable of splitting out as a receiver and winning matchups at the line of scrimmage. He is likely going to be an insurance policy against Williams' health and a valuable weapon in his own right from Day 1. It's just enough to push the Chiefs ahead of the Browns and Cowboys for the top spot.
    20. Baltimore Ravens
    The Ravens finished 2019 as the league's best offense by DVOA, of course, but so much of the credit for that success has to go to the offensive line and league MVP Lamar Jackson, who aren't a part of this discussion. Jackson makes life easier for his running backs, and that led to Mark Ingram averaging 5.0 yards per carry and leading all backs in success rate. Gus Edwards was sixth. And the Ravens added to their collection of riches in the backfield by drafting J.K. Dobbins in the second round.

    Jackson was an efficient passer, but I'm not sure how much of that was due to great work from his receivers. Tight end Mark Andrews took a leap forward and averaged a whopping 3.17 yards per route run last season, but there was no consistent production at wide receiver. Rookie first-rounder Marquise Brown racked up 233 yards and two touchdowns across the first two weeks of the regular season and then produced 351 receiving yards over the remainder of the season, with an ankle issue costing him both games and effectiveness. He then finished with a 126-yard performance against the Titans in a game in which Jackson threw 59 passes. With all due respect to pieces such as Miles Boykin, Willie Snead and Devin Duvernay, a breakout from Brown is the most likely path for the Ravens to impress further in 2020.





  12. #180
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    Re: Rank your 16 starting AFC QBs

    Quote Originally Posted by NjRavensFan View Post
    How much? I’ll bet you real money.
    What's the bet, again? Lamar's total TDs (pass + rush) >= 43 ?





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