NFL HC hiring and minority candidates

[InigoMontoya]

The following represents a list of those who applied for NFL 2020 Coaching Vacancies


Carolina Panthers

Matt Rhule, head coach (Baylor): Hired
Eric Bieniemy, offensive coordinator (Chiefs): Interviewed on 1/2
Perry Fewell, interim head coach (Panthers): Expected to interview
Mike McCarthy, former head coach (Packers): Twice interviewed
Josh McDaniels, offensive coordinator (Patriots): To interview on 1/7
Kevin Stefanski, offensive coordinator (Vikings): Expected to interview on 1/9

Cleveland Browns

Kevin Stefanski, offensive coordinator (Vikings): Hired
Eric Bieniemy, offensive coordinator (Chiefs): Interviewed on 1/3
Brian Daboll, offensive coordinator (Bills): Interviewed on 1/6
Mike LaFleur, pass-game coordinator (49ers): Mentioned as candidate
Mike McCarthy, former head coach (Packers): Interviewed on 1/2
Mike McDaniel, run-game coordinator (49ers): Mentioned as candidate
Josh McDaniels, offensive coordinator (Patriots): Interviewed on 1/10
Urban Meyer, former head coach (Ohio State): Mentioned as candidate; team denied interest
Matt Rhule, head coach (Baylor): Turned down interview opportunity
Greg Roman, offensive coordinator (Ravens): Interviewed on 1/2
Robert Saleh, defensive coordinator (49ers): Interviewed on 1/4
Jim Schwartz, defensive coordinator (Eagles): Interviewed on 1/8

Dallas Cowboys

Mike McCarthy, former head coach (Packers): Hired
Marvin Lewis, former head coach (Bengals): Interviewed 1/4
Josh McDaniels, offensive coordinator (Patriots): Cowboys interested?

New York Giants

Joe Judge, special teams coordinator/wide receivers coach (Patriots): Hired
Eric Bieniemy, offensive coordinator (Chiefs): To interview on 1/4
Jason Garrett, former head coach (Cowboys): Interview requested
Don “Wink” Martindale, defensive coordinator (Ravens): To interview on 1/4
Mike McCarthy, former head coach (Packers): Interviewed on 1/3
Josh McDaniels, offensive coordinator (Patriots): To interview on 1/8
Matt Rhule, head coach (Baylor): Interview cancelled
Kris Richard, secondary coach (Cowboys): Interviewed on 1/2

Washington Redskins

Ron Rivera, former head coach (Panthers): Hired

________________________________________________________

A few summary Statistics.....


5 Coaching Positions were available

To be considered, I think it's fair to say that you have to throw your hat in the ring.

19 Different people applied for consideration for those positions.

2 of those who applied for consideration were Black.

1 of those who applied for consideration was Hispanic.



If only about 10% of the applicants for consideration on average are Black Coaches, maybe the problem isn't discrimination.

Maybe Black Coaches need to apply for more positions.

I for one would think that would be a great idea.

Those people you listed didn't "apply" for the head coaching position. They were invited to interview. It's not like those coordinators/coaches are the ones driving the process. The teams are. Only 10% of those interviewed are minorities because the teams only asked those minorities to interview.

[NCRAVEN]

I don't understand why the notion of inherent/implicit bias is so offensive to some folks, particularly on the conservative side of the spectrum. It's human nature. The key is to recognize your knee-jerk impulses in life are often governed by these biases, remain mindful of when it happens, and try to "train" yourself away from allowing discrimination to negatively affect your decisions. It doesn't mean you're "racist" (or, really, any more racist than everyone else is, including the "wokest" among us), only human.

Do I think quotas (or this specific incentive program) are the best way to go about achieving something closer to "racial parity" in coaching? Nope. But I am glad it's a conversation the league is having.

There's a couple of problems. And I'm not sure I have the mental energy today to tie them all together so I may just bullet them


Saying that it's inherent bias that old white guys aren't giving black people a chance assume racism that may not be there

Anytime we disagree with someone and the choice they make we can say their biased and just don't realize it , so we need the more enlightened to decided for them

Having a quota or some affirmative action type system is also racist as it could properly give jobs over people who are more qualified.

If we all (as you say) have inherent/implicit bias, who among us gets to create this unbiased/ non - racist quota?

[blah3]

Another factor not mentioned yet is social class. (I know some Americans like to think that class isn't a factor in their society, but it is, in every society. In fact, race is often used by the wealthy class as a tool to bring useful idiots onside to help them defend their privilege.)

A coaching career, like many other desirable jobs, often begins with candidates working for free as interns. Internships, aside from offering cheap labour, are a way for the wealthy to ensure that the best jobs go to people like them. People with families that can afford to support them as they make their way into the top jobs.

That's not just a football problem but it plays a part in the scandlous lack of black and minority Head Coaches and co-ordinators.

Sure class is a factor. It was pointed out in the article I posted that graduate assistants have a low percentage of minority people. One reason for that I’m sure is they simply cannot put in the time with the little monetary compensation

[Waywatcher]

There's a couple of problems. And I'm not sure I have the mental energy today to tie them all together so I may just bullet them


Saying that it's inherent bias that old white guys aren't giving black people a chance assume racism that may not be there

Anytime we disagree with someone and the choice they make we can say their biased and just don't realize it , so we need the more enlightened to decided for them

Having a quota or some affirmative action type system is also racist as it could properly give jobs over people who are more qualified.

If we all (as you say) have inherent/implicit bias, who among us gets to create this unbiased/ non - racist quota?

I assume some degree of institutional racism may always be there until we take a look at the system that grooms candidates into prospective hires.

Your second point is correct, but that's the nature of disagreements in reality now. I'm far less concerned about front offices having to justify themselves for a questionable hire than I am about addressing the disproportionate strata of nonwhite coaches (particularly in comparison to the playerbase) - I don't care about good/bad PR, just results (over time) that do a better job reflecting the ostensible pool of coaching candidates.

The third point is a canard that usually white people point to as if it's some sort of epidemic. The myth of minority candidates displacing a FAR SUPERIOR white candidate is just that. If two candidates are very close in experience and skill level and the minority candidate is provided the opportunity, I'm fine with that, personally. Even if the "loser" in the situation is me. In fact, I have no way of knowing if the loser in that situation has, indeed, BEEN me. And I'm still fine with that.

For your final point, I think the key isn't to reach this halcyon future where we're all "color blind." I don't think that's realistic. But if we analyze the systems and structures in place, compare the current results to the proportionate demographics, and work on remedying the difference, that's a good start. I don't know what those solutions look like, but I'm glad the league is thinking outside of the box (even bad ideas can spur better ones).

[Ravenswintitle]

[NCRAVEN]

The third point is a canard that usually white people point to as if it's some sort of epidemic. The myth of minority candidates displacing a FAR SUPERIOR white candidate is just that. If two candidates are very close in experience and skill level and the minority candidate is provided the opportunity, I'm fine with that, personally. Even if the "loser" in the situation is me. In fact, I have no way of knowing if the loser in that situation has, indeed, BEEN me. And I'm still fine with that.

So you're fine with racism, just as long as it's your version!

[Waywatcher]

So you're fine with racism, just as long as it's your version!

File it under "turnabout is fair play." At the end of the day, I know I can do some truly dumb shit as a white guy and not be shot to death nearly all of the time.

[Waywatcher]

But if you want an actual answer, the point is all hiring decisions will take into account some degree of subjectivity. But assuming two candidates can be objectively quantified to the maximum extent possible and they end up neck-and-neck, that would mean - coin flips being what they are - that the job would go to the minority candidate 50% of the time, no? That's obviously not happening.

So before addressing the potential "abuses" of the system being overtuned, let's start with fixing what is obviously broken first IMO.

I'm a video gamer, so in analogous terms - fix the class that's under-performing, and address it potentially being over-buffed once the changes make it off the Public Test Server.

[QtR Nevermore]

So you're fine with racism, just as long as it's your version!

It's very debatable that favouring an underprivilged group at the expense of a more priviliged one can be described as racism, even if that your decision is based on race alone. Racism isn't just about race, power is an important factor, too.

There are countless instances every day where being a member of a more privileged race, class, gender etc gives advantages. You can look at favouring minorites in these situations as an attempt to redresss the balance in one very limited arena.

[Waywatcher]

It's very debatable that favouring an underprivilged group at the expense of a more priviliged one can be described as racism, even if that your decision is based on race alone. Racism isn't just about race, power is an important factor, too.

There are countless instances every day where being a member of a more privileged race, class, gender etc gives advantages. You can look at favouring minorites in these situations as an attempt to redresss the balance in one very limited arena.

That's kind of what my little jibe was meant to represent. I can feel aggrieved by being subjected to "reverse racism" and still take for granted all sorts of things my skin color affords me - like the ability to act a fool and probably not get killed for it. Which is abhorrent...

[JimZipCode]

I dont know. And neither do you.

That's true.

Therefore it's preposterous to assume that there's a HUGE (orders of magnitude) difference in interest between different ethnic groups.

[wickedsolo]

That's true.

Therefore it's preposterous to assume that there's a HUGE (orders of magnitude) difference in interest between different ethnic groups.

I wasnt. My post was hypothetical and responding to someone that indicated most of the current coaches were, at one point, players either in college or in the NFL (at some juncture in their lives) and therefore because a majority of the players in the NFL are black, that should (theoretically) be more proportional to the coaches in the NFL - particularly HC's.

I was merely pointing out that at any given time, there are 15,000+ players in FBS D-1 college and the NFL (not including all of the other collegiate levels or other football leagues - CFL, for example). Unless we poll every single player out there about their desire to "get into football coaching" we have absolutely no idea if a majority of players are even interested in pursuing that career path. Maybe there are a lot of players that want to become farmers (like Jason Brown)? Maybe there are a lot of guys that want to become talk show hosts and get involved in the media (like Mike Strahan)? Maybe there are a lot of guys that have earned decent $$$ and just want to retire and go coach at their hometown high school? Maybe there are guys that want to get into real estate? Maybe there are guys that want to get into medicine (Myron Rolle)?