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  1. #49

    Re: Ravens 2020 Backfield and Running Game

    Quote Originally Posted by JimZipCode View Post
    Granted that DeCosta can evidently conjure a draft pick from nothing: but today I dont see any trade market for Gus. I think he has more value to the Ravens as a player, than he does to any other team as a prospect.

    I just dont see anyone trading for an UDFA RB, who hasn't really produced anything -- esp when the production he has had has been tied to Lamar's option threat. Other teams are going to view Gus as completely fungible.

    Justice might have trade value. Gus has none (I suspect).
    Gus Edwards has a career 5.3 yards a carry on 270 carries. In what universe is that someone who hasn’t really produced anything?





  2. #50

    Re: Ravens 2020 Backfield and Running Game

    Quote Originally Posted by JimZipCode View Post
    Granted that DeCosta can evidently conjure a draft pick from nothing: but today I dont see any trade market for Gus. I think he has more value to the Ravens as a player, than he does to any other team as a prospect.

    I just dont see anyone trading for an UDFA RB, who hasn't really produced anything -- esp when the production he has had has been tied to Lamar's option threat. Other teams are going to view Gus as completely fungible.

    Justice might have trade value. Gus has none (I suspect).
    Huh? Gus has ran for over 700 yards in each of the last two seasons with an average of over 5 yards per carry. What gives Justice, who in the same Lamar-led offense couldn't even average 4 yards per carry, more trade value ?
    Let's win the f**king game.
    Joe Flacco





  3. #51
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    Re: Ravens 2020 Backfield and Running Game

    Quote Originally Posted by NjRavensFan View Post
    Gus Edwards has a career 5.3 yards a carry on 270 carries. In what universe is that someone who hasn’t really produced anything?
    Quote Originally Posted by Sarcasticfury View Post
    Huh? Gus has ran for over 700 yards in each of the last two seasons with an average of over 5 yards per carry. What gives Justice, who in the same Lamar-led offense couldn't even average 4 yards per carry, more trade value ?
    Wow, guys. Sensitive much?

    I didn't say Gus sucks. I said I don't think any other team in the league will offer anything in trade for him.

    For the record, I think Gus is a better back than Justice.

    But I also think other teams around the league are going to view him as a completely fungible commodity. I think the perception is going to be that he's a pedestrian talent, an UDFA who benefitted from the Lamar Effect. I think teams are going to think that their own UDFAs or late-round backs could do just as much as Gus did in the same situation. They'll think Gusses are a dime-a-dozen, and not worth trading for.

    Justice has the nice measurable from the Combine, and was a mid-round draft pick. He's also only 22 yrs old, where Gus is 25. If either of the two of them can command any trade value, I'd expect it to be Justice.

    That is all I am saying.





  4. #52

    Re: Ravens 2020 Backfield and Running Game

    You straight up said he “hasn’t really produced anything.” That’s objectively false. I’m not really sure how that’s sensitive lol but when you say something that isn’t accurate by any definition I’m going to say so

    Maybe you think he’s a product of Lamar and the offense. But he got a good number of carries last year (133 compared to Ingram’s 202) and topped Ingram in yards per carry. I like Hill better than Edwards (ironic considering you apparently feel the opposite) but there’s just no way you can say Edwards hasn’t produced. And I don’t think other teams care about their respective draft positions after a combined three years in the league.





  5. #53
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    Re: Ravens 2020 Backfield and Running Game

    Quote Originally Posted by NjRavensFan View Post
    You straight up said he “hasn’t really produced anything.”
    Sorry: I meant that more as, he's not going to be seen around the league as having produced much. Do teams tend to trade for 700-yd backs? It's my impression that they don't.

    I also think it's going to matter to teams that Gus didnt produce a damn thing while Joe was QB. Most teams run an offense more like what we ran with Joe, than what we've been doing with Lamar.


    Quote Originally Posted by NjRavensFan View Post
    Maybe you think he’s a product of Lamar and the offense.
    I've said like three times now that I think OTHER TEAMS are going to view Gus as a product of the offense.


    Quote Originally Posted by NjRavensFan View Post
    And I don’t think other teams care about their respective draft positions after a combined three years in the league.
    Oh, I dont agree at all. Lax pointed out last year when we were talking about Lamar vs Kyler, how scouts love players who were rated 5-star athletes coming out of HS. I think scouts tend to distrust "late bloomers". Pedigree matters to them. Maybe not across-the-board; but enough to impact the trade market.

    Do teams tend to trade for former UDFA RBs? It's my impression that they don't.

    (Dont give me this "combined 3 yrs" shit. They don't combine that way. Justice is coming off his rookie season, and is only 22.)





  6. #54

    Re: Ravens 2020 Backfield and Running Game

    Quote Originally Posted by JimZipCode View Post
    Sorry: I meant that more as, he's not going to be seen around the league as having produced much. Do teams tend to trade for 700-yd backs? It's my impression that they don't.

    I also think it's going to matter to teams that Gus didnt produce a damn thing while Joe was QB. Most teams run an offense more like what we ran with Joe, than what we've been doing with Lamar.


    I've said like three times now that I think OTHER TEAMS are going to view Gus as a product of the offense.


    Oh, I dont agree at all. Lax pointed out last year when we were talking about Lamar vs Kyler, how scouts love players who were rated 5-star athletes coming out of HS. I think scouts tend to distrust "late bloomers". Pedigree matters to them. Maybe not across-the-board; but enough to impact the trade market.

    Do teams tend to trade for former UDFA RBs? It's my impression that they don't.

    (Dont give me this "combined 3 yrs" shit. They don't combine that way. Justice is coming off his rookie season, and is only 22.)
    I think you were misreading my intent with the “combined three years”. I was just saying they’ve both spent some time in the league now; two years for Gus, one year for Justice. I guess it was clunky phrasing.

    I genuinely don’t think teams care that someone was a UDFA once they’ve been in the league and produced. Do you think Philip Lindsay wouldn’t have any trade value?

    Kyler Murray was a five star super recruit. Baker Mayfield was a low three star who was ranked outside the top 1,000 prospects in the country and walked on at two different schools. Both went 1-1.

    In a Lamar offense, Gus Edwards was more efficient on a fairly large sample than Mark Ingram. As a rookie with an incumbent starter and a long time incumbent backup, he was hardly even active when Joe was QB but he put up 15 carries for 64 yards, or 4.3 yards a carry in the handful of games he did play, which was better than Alex Collins (3.6) or Buck Allen (2.7; woof).





  7. #55
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    Re: Ravens 2020 Backfield and Running Game

    Quote Originally Posted by NjRavensFan View Post
    I like Hill better than Edwards (ironic considering you apparently feel the opposite)
    I wanted very much to like Hill. But his sub-4 yds per carry and his 50% catch rate left a sour taste.

    He's still very young, though. Maybe Hill can grow into a Theo Riddick -like player. Off of last season, I see him falling by the wayside as a wasted pick. Ingram and Dobbins can do everything Hill can do, and much better. Devin Duvernay can do a lot of what Hill can do, and offers more value. I think Hill is going to struggle to find snaps.

    He'd be on more solid footing if the team unloaded Gus. Also would be nice if Thomas Hammock were still around.





  8. #56
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    Re: Ravens 2020 Backfield and Running Game

    Quote Originally Posted by NjRavensFan View Post
    In a Lamar offense, Gus Edwards was more efficient on a fairly large sample than Mark Ingram. As a rookie with an incumbent starter and a long time incumbent backup, he was hardly even active when Joe was QB but he put up 15 carries for 64 yards, or 4.3 yards a carry in the handful of games he did play, which was better than Alex Collins (3.6) or Buck Allen (2.7; woof).
    Teams must be salivating, then. What do you think Gus would fetch on the trade market?





  9. #57

    Re: Ravens 2020 Backfield and Running Game

    Quote Originally Posted by JimZipCode View Post
    Teams must be salivating, then. What do you think Gus would fetch on the trade market?
    I think we could land a 6th for him.

    I’d rather keep all four though.





  10. #58

    Re: Ravens 2020 Backfield and Running Game

    Quote Originally Posted by JimZipCode View Post
    I wanted very much to like Hill. But his sub-4 yds per carry and his 50% catch rate left a sour taste.

    He's still very young, though. Maybe Hill can grow into a Theo Riddick -like player. Off of last season, I see him falling by the wayside as a wasted pick. Ingram and Dobbins can do everything Hill can do, and much better. Devin Duvernay can do a lot of what Hill can do, and offers more value. I think Hill is going to struggle to find snaps.

    He'd be on more solid footing if the team unloaded Gus. Also would be nice if Thomas Hammock were still around.
    Yeah I don’t agree but I put too much time into the Gus debate to really have any energy left over for this one 😂 maybe tomorrow

    I’ll just say if Hill was falling by the wayside as a wasted pick I don’t think he plays half the offensive snaps in our playoff game.





  11. #59

    Re: Ravens 2020 Backfield and Running Game

    Quote Originally Posted by JimZipCode View Post
    Granted that DeCosta can evidently conjure a draft pick from nothing: but today I dont see any trade market for Gus. I think he has more value to the Ravens as a player, than he does to any other team as a prospect.

    I just dont see anyone trading for an UDFA RB, who hasn't really produced anything -- esp when the production he has had has been tied to Lamar's option threat. Other teams are going to view Gus as completely fungible.

    Justice might have trade value. Gus has none (I suspect).
    I can see why you would think that, but I tend to think teams will value production even in a Lamar led offense. If your tailback goes down in camp you could do worse than picking up a replacement with a 5.3 Y/A career average.

    Honestly, I could see either one retrieving a 6th rounder to the right team after the right camp injury. Either way, I don't see them carrying 4 tailbacks like most here on the board seem to think.





  12. #60

    Re: Ravens 2020 Backfield and Running Game

    I also think he got better as the year went along, and I have a hard time holding the 53% catch rate against him when it was such a small sample. Take out the 0/3 against KC week three and it jumps up to 67%. Include the 4/5 against the Titans and it jumps further to 72%. I also think it’s relevant when discussing his catch rate that unlike the other RBs his targets didn’t all come out of the backfield. He lined up at WR with semi-regularity (which is also a pretty good example of how it’s not true that Ingram and Dobbins do everything Hill does, and better. They are talented receiving backs but Hill’s versatility is unmatched on this team).

    He really seemed like a different player both as a runner and as a receiver by the end of the year. Not everyone hits the ground running, and I don’t think how a player looks in October of their rookie season determines what their entire career will be. Dude wasn’t just a combine star, he was a damn good player at Oklahoma State.

    I guess I had a bit more debate left in me tonight after all.
    Last edited by NjRavensFan; 05-25-2020 at 01:33 AM.





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