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  1. #1
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    Ravens screen game

    The great Edgar Allen takes a look at the Ravens screen plays:




    Starts out with Joe throwing to Ray Rice during the SB run! For those of us who thought, man the Ravens just down run any screens – man, it's discouraging to think that Edgar had to go all the way back to 2012 to find an exmple!

    But it's not quite that bad. He gets to plays from this season starting around 3:35. Actually the 2012 example lays a nice groundwork for looking at the later plays. Roman uses some variations on the standard screen blocking. Also looks like he's using the WR screen to potentially set up passes to a TE blocking downfield – remember we got an early TD to Mandrews off a play like that, though that one's not in this vid.





  2. #2
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    Re: Ravens screen game

    I want to add, I think Dobbins will be a devastating weapon in the screen game. Just a monster.

    WR screens, I could take 'em or leave 'em. They seem like a nice idea, and we've got after-the-catch ability on the outside. But they don't "hit" that often. I read somewhere this week that as a group they are the least productive targets to WRs. The football version of deep 2 from basketball. Take 'em out!

    Unless Roman is using them to set up deeper passes to the TEs. In which case, carry on.





  3. Re: Ravens screen game

    Quote Originally Posted by JimZipCode View Post
    I want to add, I think Dobbins will be a devastating weapon in the screen game. Just a monster.

    WR screens, I could take 'em or leave 'em. They seem like a nice idea, and we've got after-the-catch ability on the outside. But they don't "hit" that often. I read somewhere this week that as a group they are the least productive targets to WRs. The football version of deep 2 from basketball. Take 'em out!

    Unless Roman is using them to set up deeper passes to the TEs. In which case, carry on.
    Duvernay's WR screen game in college was quite strong. He's not just fast but runs ANGRY (I'm sure there's a more scientific explanation having to do with "contact balance" or what not - but I'm going to chalk it up a boiling rage directed at arm tackles).

    I'm a strong believer than an effective screen game opens up the entire offense and keeps an aggressive defense a half-step back. Mix in a few other wrinkles like jet sweeps, wheel routes to a speedy RB with good hands (Ingram? Hill? DOBBINS??), and our already heavy propensity to utilize play action...wooweeee, that should be fun.





  4. #4
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    Re: Ravens screen game

    Quote Originally Posted by JimZipCode View Post
    I want to add, I think Dobbins will be a devastating weapon in the screen game. Just a monster.

    WR screens, I could take 'em or leave 'em. They seem like a nice idea, and we've got after-the-catch ability on the outside. But they don't "hit" that often. I read somewhere this week that as a group they are the least productive targets to WRs. The football version of deep 2 from basketball. Take 'em out!

    Unless Roman is using them to set up deeper passes to the TEs. In which case, carry on.
    I view screen game different. When I was growing up in football a screen was always viewed by my coaches and therefore myself as more of an extension of the "run" then a true "pass".

    The analytics sector that views EPA as a catch-all snap shot metric and also think lol RBDM are gonna automatically think less of screen passes because imho EPA is the wrong metric to quantify its benefits.

    For me a screen isn't called gain set amount of yardage.

    My view screens:

    -make the fat dline have to run and chase (especially in conjunction with making those same fat DL have to sprint against zone run)....screens are a great call prior to a 3rd down drop back (shout out to Andy Reid)

    -nice easy read 'gimme' pass to get the QB comfortable

    -easy way to get an guaranteed early touch to playmaker to get them into the game

    -they have a high rate of completion which makes it a way to keep the clock moving

    -complementary concept to a "dual concept play" -- the frontside of a play could be an RPO or Slants and the backside of the play could be a screen

    I don't think a screen is a good call on 3rd + because its gonna have a low epa or conversion outcome compared to a "regular" pass because there is high variance and unpredictability to the yardage outcomes.

    But, when a screen is called I believe the expected non-0 gain is higher then a "regular" pass play....if only because screens have a higher completion percentage then a regular pass which at of at best is around 70% ?. Using those rough numbers a screen is gonna result in 0 gain 30-40% fewer times then a "regular" pass and not being in 2nd and 10 is a good thing.

    I hope that makes sense.....

    Also I say all this with the understanding that based on Roman's history there is little reason, other then hope, to expect the screen game to become a meaningful part of the offense.




    TLDR - I think EPA is the wrong metric to use to explain the benefits of calling more screens; if you want to see the benefits of calling screens watch Andy Reid and his disciples (and to a lesser extent Tom Brady when he was with the Pats)



    Good article
    https://arrowheadguys.com/2019/07/01...s-screen-game/

    one of the twitter vids from the article that people won't read:
    https://twitter.com/i/status/1140639514240659456
    Last edited by edromeo; 05-08-2020 at 12:24 PM.





  5. #5
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    Re: Ravens screen game

    Anyhow some previously posted screen game stuff:
    Quote Originally Posted by edromeo View Post
    Here is one of the few times we ran WR screen while Lamar was the QB:
    Quote Originally Posted by edromeo View Post
    Yup. I have the incomplete screen attempt here:
    1st & 10 -
    Formation: Shotgun(R) Trips (R)
    Personnnel: 11
    Dist: X: Boykin Iso (L) Y(R):Andrews; Slot(R):Snead; Z:Hollywood

    https://forum.russellstreetreport.co...57#post1746257




    I would love to see screens as part of the opening script of 15 plays, especially a screen to Hill.
    But you probably need to have Hill in on at least 1 other play in the opening script before you call the screen or people will key on Hill when he's in the line-up.





  6. #6
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    Re: Ravens screen game

    more screen game:
    Quote Originally Posted by edromeo View Post
    I think Greg has a diagnosed case of antiscreenoplasia......but they're in the playbook....last game I saw them was vs the Bills:








  7. #7
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    Re: Ravens screen game

    Quote Originally Posted by edromeo View Post
    Huh! I didn't remember us running so many screens vs the Bills. With success, too.





  8. #8
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    Re: Ravens screen game

    Quote Originally Posted by edromeo View Post
    one of the twitter vids from the article that people won't read:
    https://twitter.com/i/status/1140639514240659456

    Every one of the passes on that vid went to a RB. I love RB screens. It's WR screens that I said were inefficient.


    Quote Originally Posted by edromeo View Post
    -easy way to get an guaranteed early touch to playmaker to get them into the game
    Ooo, that's a good point.


    Quote Originally Posted by edromeo View Post
    -complementary concept to a "dual concept play" -- the frontside of a play could be an RPO or Slants and the backside of the play could be a screen
    Oho!

    Edgar Allen showed a play on his vid, where there was a screen concept to either side of the formation. I think he had a WR screen to the right, and the RB leaked out to the left. And what was interesting, the seas parted in the middle of the field – the two ILBs jetted out to either side. I thought, holy cow, Lamar could run clear across the country with that opening.

    Chip Kelly used to call a lot of dual WR screens, with the option of a handoff in the middle. The QB could choose what looked best based on the D.





  9. #9

    Re: Ravens screen game

    Love that point later in the video about phantom WR bubble screen with the outside receivers faking run block and then releasing into deep patterns into a ton of open real estate. If you wanted to gamble further you could even letter your RB release straight up the seam and if you can get the ball away we're talking big time play.





  10. #10
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    Re: Ravens screen game

    Quote Originally Posted by ravensintennessee View Post
    Love that point later in the video about phantom WR bubble screen with the outside receivers faking run block and then releasing into deep patterns into a ton of open real estate.
    Like this:






  11. #11
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    Re: Ravens screen game

    Quote Originally Posted by JimZipCode View Post
    Like this:

    That was probably the most creatively designed play of all of last season.

    Just gorgeous.





  12. #12
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    Re: Ravens screen game

    Quote Originally Posted by Josepho View Post
    That was probably the most creatively designed play of all of last season.

    Just gorgeous.
    Jimmy and Josepho, twas a thing of beauty and I'd like to see more of it in 2020... Bc





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