Trading Players Selected (NBA Style) During the Draft

**Blovius_Maximus** · 04-26-2020, 03:11 PM

Manning and Rivers were drafted then swapped an hour later.

Often we hear some GM say “our guy” was snatched just before our pick.

Is it the CBA, is it the transaction cost, is it some unspoken cultural rule?

If the Jets drafted Mims and you wanted him ten seconds before the selection, and you still want him ten minutes after the selection, why not trade for him?

We saw Harbaugh's reaction when he heard the name Devin and thought the Pats were drafting the Devin that we drafted. Imagine now that the Pats did in fact draft Duvernay. What's so wrong with calling the Pats and negotiating a mutually satisfactory deal? Why so quick to relent and move on?

It was done with Manning and Rivers, why isn’t it done with other later selections?

**Sarcasticfury** · 04-26-2020, 03:19 PM

Why would a team give up the player they wanted in the draft to another team that obviously wants him? The Chargers traded Eli to the Giants for Rivers because Eli wasn't going to play for them. Later selections don't have that kind of leverage.

**Blovius_Maximus** · 04-26-2020, 03:39 PM

Well, you are making an assumption. We don't know that every team is in fact infatuated with their selection. Sometimes a board is wiped out and, because the phone isn’t ringing, you are stuck with making a selection.

The broader point is that the draft assigns you the initial property right. From there, why not turn it into an auction where anyone can bid?

If a team like, say, the Cardinals, whose QB was sacked more often than any other, immediately called the Ravens after the Tyre Phillips selections and offered a 2021 third round selection are you convinced the Ravens say no? I'm not. The Cards might love him more. So, create a culture where people feel comfortable bidding.

Duvernay is a fit. But maybe a Michael Pittman better complements Hollywood. If you are the Ravens why just sigh and move on? It seems every team sighs and moves on.
Bid.
Get the guy you want.

I don't expect this to be routine. But why is it unheard of? This seems like a wasted opportunity for willing sellers to meet willing buyers.

**Sarcasticfury** · 04-26-2020, 04:07 PM

First, not every team is infatuated with the prospect they chose and yes, sometimes the guy that they were really hoping to snatch with a particular pick is gone and they can't trade out of the slot they're at. But that doesn't mean that the player they selected wasn't a guy that A. they believed is appropriate value at that particular spot and B. will help the team improve. If you have someone who meets those criteria, why would you trade him to another team in exchange for a player that you passed up and they don't want, or a future selection?

**NjRavensFan** · 04-26-2020, 04:10 PM

It was done with Manning and Rivers because Manning refused to play in SD.

NBA players aren’t drafted and then traded; traded picks just don’t become official until after the first round is complete for some weird reason. Those players were drafted on behalf of the trading team after a trade was agreed to.

**xiao_ke** · 04-26-2020, 04:14 PM

Originally Posted by NjRavensFan

It was done with Manning and Rivers because Manning refused to play in SD.

NBA players aren’t drafted and then traded; traded picks just don’t become official until after the first round is complete for some weird reason. Those players were drafted on behalf of the trading team after a trade was agreed to.

In the 1987 draft Scottie Pippen was selected by Supersonics on behalf of the Bulls, and the trade was made official after Pippen was selected. They covered this on The Last Dance on ESPN. Pippen was talking to the media after being selected wearing a Sonics and didn't even know he was traded to the Bulls. A reporter broke the news to him that he had been traded to the Bulls.

**Blovius_Maximus** · 04-26-2020, 04:44 PM

Originally Posted by Sarcasticfury

First, not every team is infatuated with the prospect they chose and yes, sometimes the guy that they were really hoping to snatch with a particular pick is gone and they can't trade out of the slot they're at. But that doesn't mean that the player they selected wasn't a guy that A. they believed is appropriate value at that particular spot and B. will help the team improve. If you have someone who meets those criteria, why would you trade him to another team in exchange for a player that you passed up and they don't want, or a future selection?

Why? Because it entirely depends on the offer. Some offers are too good to refuse. Similarly some players are too much of fit to let them go play for another team.

Sometimes a player's draft value meets team need, ala Queen. The price to move Queen would be prohibitive. Teams likely wouldn’t call the Ravens for Queen.

But some teams might consider some of their players fungible. While another team might think that very same player the missing piece of the jigsaw puzzle. The Ravens might think that Ben Bredeson is a good player but that Shane Lemeiux with a sixth round pick is better combination. If that's the case why feel hemmed in by some artificial timeline or cultural more that prohibits making a post draft trade today?

No doubt there are some websites that are offering redraft “whatifs.” Don't you think there are GMs doing the same, looking at draft boards and working out new combinations of players for their team.

I don't think player leverage has anything to do with whether a third round pick gets traded for some later third round pick on draft day. I'd be more convinced to believe that a GM wants to save face and pretend that the player picked was always the player he wanted to pick. Moreover, he doesn't want to have a post draft trade calling into question whether he made mistake or get bad value in a subsequent trade. It’s easier to save face and sit on a mistake then take a risk to do something different like try to rearrange resources into a better combination.

**darb72** · 04-26-2020, 06:57 PM

Why not just trade up to the pick and draft the player you want?

Seems a lot easier to me.

**Laxdad24** · 04-26-2020, 07:43 PM

One thing ....in the NFL I don’t think you can trade players you don’t “own” ala’ have a contract with. Drafted rookies don’t have a contract ..yet. Now if you sign your rookie and wanna trade them ...I don’t see a problem. I believe the Manning/ Rivers deal was “worked “ out before the draft. And it was on the old CBA.

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**sflegend89** · 04-26-2020, 08:01 PM

No NFL team is going to trade away a player they chose to draft unless you just blatantly overpay even in concept (which I don't think is really an applicable possibility), which is why nobody trades like that in the NFL. You need to beat teams to the punch and trade for draft positioning, why would any GM in their right mind trade a player that they wanted for equal market value and lose their player of choice?

NBA trades that you're referring to are agreed to in principal and the team is basically selecting the player for you but the trade was agreed to ahead of time. I can think of very rare instances even in the NBA where a player gets traded away after the fact, Andrew Wiggins is the only one that comes to mind and the NBA is just entirely different in that regard.

**NjRavensFan** · 04-26-2020, 09:06 PM

Originally Posted by sflegend89

No NFL team is going to trade away a player they chose to draft unless you just blatantly overpay even in concept (which I don't think is really an applicable possibility), which is why nobody trades like that in the NFL. You need to beat teams to the punch and trade for draft positioning, why would any GM in their right mind trade a player that they wanted for equal market value and lose their player of choice?

NBA trades that you're referring to are agreed to in principal and the team is basically selecting the player for you but the trade was agreed to ahead of time. I can think of very rare instances even in the NBA where a player gets traded away after the fact, Andrew Wiggins is the only one that comes to mind and the NBA is just entirely different in that regard.

Yeah and the Wiggins trade came after Lebron fucking James decided to sign back with Cleveland in FA which obviously changed their future vs present considerations lol

**Blovius_Maximus** · 04-27-2020, 01:46 PM

Originally Posted by darb72

Why not just trade up to the pick and draft the player you want?

Seems a lot easier to me.

That's fighting the premise. In a perfect world there is no scarcity and people don't make the mistakes that scarcity often induces. I'm working from the assumption that people can’t always immediately get what they what and so must find alternative methods.

Imagine you're Bill Parcells looking to buy groceries to cook a great dinner. You have your shopping list in hand. You walk through the grocery store's door and immediately see a great product that you don't need but is priced so low that you can't pass up the value. You put in your cart and continue with your shopping.

When placing your goods on the checkout conveyor belt you realize that couldn't afford some needed nutmeg and had to settle for a cheaper substitute, cinnamon. A fellow shopper sees what's on the belt and you see that he was able find nutmeg.

Isn't it sensible for each of you to look over each other's carts and make mutually beneficial swap?

Why should it matter when the swap takes place? Why should taking an item off the shelf and putting it in your cart foreclose a later transaction? Why would paying the cashier prevent you from meeting your fellow shopper in the parking lot and exchanging goods then?

GMs made mistakes. GMs toady see how a different bundle of players might be better than the bundle they drafted. The days after the draft should be a swap meet.

If there is a collective bargaining rule preventing this, then so be it. I can understand not subjecting players to the emotional whirlwind of being traded hither and dither. But if no rule exists then why not have a 48 hour period when GMs can evaluate their new rosters, realize they didn't buy the nutmeg they needed, and then trade away some excess parsley for someone who was lucky enough to be in a position to find the nutmeg on the shelf?

Willing buyers should be able to meet willing sellers. Good should flow to the people who value them most highly.