Jadeveon Clowney = Missing Piece?

[one eyed bird]

Steelers?

If no one is offering him a multi year deal in the range he wants that is exactly when you would take a one year prove it deal.

How tf do the Steelers have that kind of cap space?

[unleashthebeast]

Different reports on how much Seattle offered and if that Miami offer was legit.

https://www.seattletimes.com/sports/...-asking-price/

Can easily imagine reports about the Seattle and Miami offer getting out there just from Clowney's team trying to stir up interest and raise price.

[JonAB]

Judon
2019- 10 sacks on 63 pressures -16 games
2018- 8 on 47- 16 games
2017- 9 on 35- 16 games

Clowney
2019- 3 sacks on 58 pressures- 13 games
2018- 9 on 63- 15 games
2017- 8 on 64- 16 games

Judon had his big jump in pressures just in his contract year, which is always a red flag to me. Pretty clear whose been the more consistent pass rusher, despite facing something like 20% more double teams and NOT leading the league in unblocked pressure percentage. The only thing Judos has on Clowney is durability (and that does matter)

[Shas]

I just feel like I’m smashing my head against a wall. Posting over and over in multiple threads why specifically sack totals are a poor way to evaluate Clowney and pointing to a number of other metrics that indicate that he is an elite player. But smart posters keep just saying “I don’t see it, his sack totals aren’t that high!”

Which is why I said I don't want to keep debating it over and over again.

The explanation that you would have to accept in order to understand our perspective and preserve your brain health is that--from all reports--Clowney is asking to be paid like an elite sack specialist. He is portraying himself as being that guy based on the numbers we've all been talking about.

So, unless he comes at a bargain price, I don't know why we are talking about him.

If the argument is that he is an all-around stud at multiple roles, I am going to simply counter with, this is who Judon is and I would rather have Judon, one the one year deal they already have him locked up to cover, and possibly long term if they can strike a deal for a long term contract in the next three months.

[NjRavensFan]

Which is why I said I don't want to keep debating it over and over again.

The explanation that you would have to accept in order to understand our perspective and preserve your brain health is that--from all reports--Clowney is asking to be paid like an elite sack specialist. He is portraying himself as being that guy based on the numbers we've all been talking about.

So, unless he comes at a bargain price, I don't know why we are talking about him.

If the argument is that he is an all-around stud at multiple roles, I am going to simply counter with, this is who Judon is and I would rather have Judon, one the one year deal they already have him locked up to cover, and possibly long term if they can strike a deal for a long term contract in the next three months.

I genuinely don’t even understand the term “sack specialist”. Yeah I get that sacks are game-changing splash plays but splash plays only get you so far. Deangelo Hall was an incredible “interception specialist” but he wasn’t really all that good of a cornerback most years.

Clowney is asking to be paid like an elite edge player, which is what he is.

[NjRavensFan]

The simultaneous argument, meanwhile, that Clowney is a flashy, low-effort player, but also he doesn’t have a flashy enough stat line is wild to me (not saying this is you, Shas. That stuff is very much a part of his narrative generally, and I don’t get it).

He had a low sack total last season because he spent his contract year playing disciplined football within the role that was asked of him rather than hunting sacks. The guy he’s often described as would’ve freelanced and put up a much more impressive raw stat line (which he could’ve used to bolster his negotiating position), but contributed far less to winning football in the process.

[Shas]

So far the rest of the league isn't jumping at the chance to pay for his elite services.

My issue is that all the subjective arguments we have to twist into place (ie., forced to play disciplined football) to still call him elite--aren't supported by enough objective measures that allow me to say he's elite.

By that definition Judon is elite. Except I don't want to pay him $18M+ a year either.

When I factor in what I sense to be less than a football loving "play like a Raven" player -- a factor that caused JonAB to blow his brains out when I mentioned it--it cinches the idea I don't want him here.

But my argument is no more compelling to your side on this argument than yours mine.

So I'll just drop it and be satisfied the Ravens appear to be on track to do what I'd rather see them do with Judon and Clowney.

[NjRavensFan]

So far the rest of the league isn't jumping at the chance to pay for his elite services.

And Calais Campbell just got traded for a 5th round pick.

This kind of shit happens every year.

[boller4president]

I don’t like Clowney at all. He has some great games but then then he’ll do little in many others. I keep Judon over Clowney. I don’t know what you’d get out of Suggs. I’m surprised he’s not retiring

I prefer Clowney over Judon easily. Clowney is a complete OLB he is as close to Suggs as you will find.

The issue with him right now is threefold. A) It requires us to move Judon like other posters have said B) Furthermore he is always injured and coming off a core injury C) He can't get a physical and wants a long term contract

So the question isn't whose better it's whether you would take 1 year of Judon vs a guy who while better is always injured, could still be injured, and whom your doctors can't examine. I think if we paired him with another pass rusher on the outside it would be fine but I don't want to put ourselves in a position were we are counting on Clowney for 16 games.

[21xxxv]

I prefer Clowney over Judon easily. Clowney is a complete OLB he is as close to Suggs as you will find.

The issue with him right now is threefold. A) It requires us to move Judon like other posters have said B) Furthermore he is always injured and coming off a core injury C) He can't get a physical and wants a long term contract

So the question isn't whose better it's whether you would take 1 year of Judon vs a guy who while better is always injured, could still be injured, and whom your doctors can't examine. I think if we paired him with another pass rusher on the outside it would be fine but I don't want to put ourselves in a position were we are counting on Clowney for 16 games.

Clowney for 16 games That my friend has been his problem.

[unleashthebeast]

I prefer Clowney over Judon easily. Clowney is a complete OLB he is as close to Suggs as you will find.

The issue with him right now is threefold. A) It requires us to move Judon like other posters have said B) Furthermore he is always injured and coming off a core injury C) He can't get a physical and wants a long term contract

So the question isn't whose better it's whether you would take 1 year of Judon vs a guy who while better is always injured, could still be injured, and whom your doctors can't examine. I think if we paired him with another pass rusher on the outside it would be fine but I don't want to put ourselves in a position were we are counting on Clowney for 16 games.

This is a fair point but I don't agree. With our secondary, and the addition of Campbell, I don't think we would need to rely on 16 games of elite play out of Clowney. We just need him ready to play at a high level come playoff time.

His inability to get a physical right now though is definitely the biggest reason why he isn't signed, and probably will end up losing him millions of dollars. Pretty unfortunate situation

[GOTA]

I prefer Clowney over Judon easily. Clowney is a complete OLB he is as close to Suggs as you will find.

The issue with him right now is threefold. A) It requires us to move Judon like other posters have said B) Furthermore he is always injured and coming off a core injury C) He can't get a physical and wants a long term contract

So the question isn't whose better it's whether you would take 1 year of Judon vs a guy who while better is always injured, could still be injured, and whom your doctors can't examine. I think if we paired him with another pass rusher on the outside it would be fine but I don't want to put ourselves in a position were we are counting on Clowney for 16 games.

Just because he's good against the rush and can rush doesn't mean he's anything close to Suggs. Maybe Clowney is close to a 35 year year Suggs but he's nowhere near Suggs in his prime.