Hollywood working out w/ his cousin Antonio Brown

[Ravensblitzkrieg]

Well, Owens needs to get over it. Owens dropped more passes in a season than Moss did his entire career. He can match up the numbers all he wants. Moss deserved to go on the first ballot and Owens was just fine on the second. He absolutely deserved to go in and he was the most dominant body-catcher I’ve ever seen, but Moss was transcendent.

So you don’t care about numbers lol? But you care about drop numbers? Which is it? That’s retarded logic right there.

Anyone who says TO shouldn’t be a first ballot hall of famer is a complete fool when it comes to football. No exceptions

[Desert Raven]

So you don’t care about numbers lol? But you care about drop numbers? Which is it? That’s retarded logic right there.

Anyone who says TO shouldn’t be a first ballot hall of famer is a complete fool when it comes to football. No exceptions

Agreed except you could have said it a bit more diplomatically and been less insulting about it.

As far as major statistical categories go, the only receivers ‘better’ than Owens are Rice and Moss.

[Ortizer]

So you don’t care about numbers lol? But you care about drop numbers? Which is it? That’s retarded logic right there.

Anyone who says TO shouldn’t be a first ballot hall of famer is a complete fool when it comes to football. No exceptions

Wasn't the reason he wasn't because he pissed off the voters?

Sent from my LM-G820 using Tapatalk

[The Excellector]

If we go purely by numbers, there’ll be a lot of people that shouldn’t be in there, who will be. It’s about more than numbers. The numbers will say only Rice and Moss are better. The amount of WRs who were truly better is larger. Yes, Owens belongs in the Hall of Fame. There is no question about that. But you don’t put a guy in on the first ballot, who can’t even perfect the most basic function of the position.

The catch that Owens is most remembered for is the catch against Green Bay. At the time, the big surprise from everyone, including the commentators, is that Owens actually caught it, because for all of the big plays he’d give you, the ball hit the ground a lot.

I remember watching that game as a kid, in disbelief that he actually held onto it.

[NjRavensFan]

If we go purely by numbers, there’ll be a lot of people that shouldn’t be in there, who will be. It’s about more than numbers. The numbers will say only Rice and Moss are better. The amount of WRs who were truly better is larger. Yes, Owens belongs in the Hall of Fame. There is no question about that. But you don’t put a guy in on the first ballot, who can’t even perfect the most basic function of the position.

The catch that Owens is most remembered for is the catch against Green Bay. At the time, the big surprise from everyone, including the commentators, is that Owens actually caught it, because for all of the big plays he’d give you, the ball hit the ground a lot.

I remember watching that game as a kid, in disbelief that he actually held onto it.

This is possibly the worst take you've ever had.

[NjRavensFan]

Drops or not, TO's catch percentage was in the mid 60s for pretty much his entire prime. He had a yards/target above 9 seven times, and it was never below 7, even when he was washed in Cincinnati. Throw the ball in his direction and good things happen. Just a ridiculous take. He is one of the best to ever do it, and has as good an argument as the third best WR ever as anyone else.

[WrongBaldy]

https://twitter.com/MySportsUpdate/s...51514941919232

[WNCRavensFan]

I don’t think he’ll actually get inducted unless he really gets his shit together and turns his life around. But he was clearly a HOF caliber player.

He's got the numbers IMO considering it's just a 10 year career. There aren't too many WRs that are 4x first team All Pros. His numbers stack up well with Calvin Johnson, think about that.

It feels weird saying "I don't want this HOFer on my team" but I still say it. I think players' legacies should take a hit for being franchise wreckers in a team sport. I do believe, perhaps erroneously, that it costs the team wins no matter how good the player is. But, precedent is set, HOF is about individual success not team success. Although strangely, winning championships is part of a HOFer's case.... oh look AB has none.

Anyway, "This guy is one of the best players in the game" doesn't always mean "I want this player on my team".

[HotInHere]

He's got the numbers IMO considering it's just a 10 year career. There aren't too many WRs that are 4x first team All Pros. His numbers stack up well with Calvin Johnson, think about that.

It feels weird saying "I don't want this HOFer on my team" but I still say it. I think players' legacies should take a hit for being franchise wreckers in a team sport. I do believe, perhaps erroneously, that it costs the team wins no matter how good the player is. But, precedent is set, HOF is about individual success not team success. Although strangely, winning championships is part of a HOFer's case.... oh look AB has none.

Anyway, "This guy is one of the best players in the game" doesn't always mean "I want this player on my team".

Very well said.

Except with AB, it's not "this guy is one of the best players in the game." It's, "this guy WAS one of the best players in the game."

In 2017 he was one of the best players in the game. In 2018, he wasn't even the best WR on his own team. (Although still a very good player.) In 2019, he hardly played football at all.

In 2020, he is going to miss another 1/2 a season, and he's 32 years old. Odds are very good he is not still one of the best players in the game.

[JimZipCode]

He's got the numbers IMO considering it's just a 10 year career. There aren't too many WRs that are 4x first team All Pros. His numbers stack up well with Calvin Johnson, think about that.

For years there's been a logjam at WR, in the HOF balloting.

I love PFR's Hall of Fame monitor:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/hof/hofm_WR.htm

By their metric, the most "qualified" WRs not in the HOF are:

Larry Fitzgerald (active)
Reggie Wayne
Torry Holt
Steve Smith
Julio Jones (active)
Andre Johnson
Antonio Brown (?)
Del Hofner
Drew Pearson
Calvin Johnson

Fitz is so absurdly over-qualified, it's ridiculous.

---

That guy I've never heard of, Del Hofner, played end for the Rams & Giants, 1957 to 67. A five-time All-Pro, Shofner caught passes from Billy Wade in LA, and YA Tittle in NY. Had four 1100-yd seasons, two double-digit TD seasons and three more seasons with 7-8-9. Led the league in recv yds once, and was 2nd or 3rd another three times.

According to a piece on Pro Football Researchers dot org, "Shofner was first tried as a defensive back with the Rams but quickly switched to wideout where his speed and catching ability made him the NFL’s most feared deep threat." Sorta like Roy Green I guess, if you remember him from the '80s. As a rookie DB in 1957, Shofner picked 2 INTs. He snagged another in 1959, which was after his switch to full-time receiver; I guess he was still doing spot-duty as a DB.

Shofner was also the Rams full-time punter, 1958-60! Talk about saving a roster spot.

Here's a long piece on Shefner from the Pro Football Journal, with some discussion of Shefner's tape:

LOOKING BACK
Del Shofner: The Lean, Quiet, and Very Athletic Texan
By TJ Troup | March 21, 2020
http://nflfootballjournal.blogspot.c...-and-very.html

You can see Shofner run quick out patterns, deep out patterns, short turn-ins (curls), stop routes (hitch), and of course the deep post, and post corner routes. When a receiver gains as many yards as he does there is a belief he must run streak or "fly" patterns. Though Del does this on occasion—his best route by far is the SLANT. Having coached receivers at both the high school and college level will go to my grave knowing that this route is by far the most important for any receiver to have success. Del Shofner ran the slant to perfection.

Quickness, long strides, adjusting on the run to the flight of the ball. Once he has latched on to the pigskin he is off, and I mean OFF TO THE RACES. This man caught short throws and turned them into long gainers and touchdowns. Steve Sabol's outstanding film "The 100 Greatest Touchdowns" has a clip of Shofner on a slant against the Colts where he does not score, but gain over 90 yards. Steve thought enough of Del to include a non-touchdown.
...
Del Shofner was almost always aligned as split end left, yet sometimes the tight end would be to his side, and as such he was the flanker. All receivers in the decades of the '50s & '60s were aligned in tight, and Del is no exception. Though he never blocked anyone into the ground, he was adequate as a blocking left tight end. He would run routes from this alignment, and he would also be flexed near the tackle.
...
Y.A. Tittle set a new standard for touchdown passes in a season, not once, but TWICE in '62 & '63. Again, a passing attack is not based upon one man getting open and scoring, but having multiple weapons. The Giants had multiple weapons, yet Shofner "forced" opposing coaches to adjust coverage to roll weak, or having a linebacker walked off in front of Shofner. Safeties shaded to his side of the field, and boy oh boy did the bald eagle exploit opposing secondaries...

Shoftner had a game in 1962 where he put up 269 yds vs Washington. Eat that, Washington Team Football.

I have no dog in the race on whether Del Shofner "should" be in the HOF. But seems like he was a very interesting player. I'm happy to have learned a little something about him.

[WNCRavensFan]

The one WR I will stump for the HOF that may not quite have the numbers... and I know some will hate this... is Hines Ward. I think he did more without the football than any other WR, that I've seen.

I know one thing, without a doubt, I take HW over AB on my team any day of the week (and twice on Sunday of course). Dirty play and all. Shit we've had dirty players too.

[L. G. Dupre]

The one WR I will stump for the HOF that may not quite have the numbers... and I know some will hate this... is Hines Ward. I think he did more without the football than any other WR, that I've seen.

And some of it was occasionally clean