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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Upper Marlboro, MD
    Posts
    652

    The Economy - Bush, Obama, Trump

    Please give this a fair read. Today, everything is about blaming people for why things are the way they are. Instead, as Americans, it should be about us building or improving upon what was done before. Our system isn't perfect. Lots of people have been left behind and things aren't working for some folks.

    My quick simple takes.

    Bush taxcuts and the sub-prime mortgage fiasco crashed the economy. Deficits were low

    Obama blew up deficits trying to recover from crash. Slowly recovered. Markets, employment, trending up. Deficits trending down, mostly due to austerity (GOP Congress)

    Trump ticked those economic, job numbers up to another higher level. Deficits up due to Trump tax cuts and military spending. Judgement still out on end effect of taxcuts.

    Look at the trend lines.


    https://www.google.com/amp/s/markets...9-9-1028833119




    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk





  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Harford Cnty , MD
    Posts
    10,702

    Re: The Economy - Bush, Obama, Trump

    Good article DDR. I can say that the statements posted there are prob true. Kinda mirrors my personal thoughts on such matters.
    But ..with the majority crowd here in The Lid...this is gonna get flamed as “fake news”! BHO didn’t do anything good for us. And Trump is the Savior of such. Little Bush is generally looked at like a Stooge. Most thinking people know that Chaney ran the country for those 8 yrs.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk





  3. #3

    Re: The Economy - Bush, Obama, Trump

    I suppose it shouldn't come as a surprise that democrats are so ignorant about the economy since they're all gung-ho for socialism because this time it'll totes work for sure, because like, real socialism has never been tried before. Fer sure!

    I mock out of disdain.

    When the economy craters like it did after the Clinton fiasco, which Bush did nothing to help, Obama's policies oversaw a crap recovery. Reagan hit 6% GPD growth for a couple of years as the economy rebounded from the '82-'83 recession. Obama led the most stagnant recovery since the Great Depression in terms of economic growth, jobs and wage growth barely hitting 2.9. The Joint Economic Committee of Congress in 2015 found that compared to the eight previous post-recession events, “the Obama recovery was the weakest on record.” If Obama's recovery had been AVERAGE, the GDP would've been 3 trillion dollars bigger. He fails at even hitting the low bar of mediocrity. Obama averaged 1.88% GDP growth over his eight years and Larry Summers, his chief economist, said that 2% was the best we could ever hope for. The Trump economy hasn't dipped below 2% yet. So Trump inherits a normal, albeit slow, economy and makes it much better. Obama takes an already recovering economy and slows it down. But sure, graphs are great for those impressed by primary colors.

    Would you like to discuss consumer confidence, an ever better way to gauge the strength of a president's economy? In January it was 131.6, a 31% increase since the month before Trump took office.https://www.conference-board.org/dat...confidence.cfm Seems like people have a lot more confidence since they get to keep more of their money.

    As an addendum to my post in the other thread about things Trump has/hasn't done that I dislike, the fact we're still struggling under the Frank-Dodd act pisses me off to no end.
    "A moron, a rapist, and a Pittsburgh Steeler walk into a bar. He sits down and says, “Hi I’m Ben may I have a drink please?”
    ProFootballMock





  4. #4

    Re: The Economy - Bush, Obama, Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by ddr_jr View Post
    Please give this a fair read. Today, everything is about blaming people for why things are the way they are. Instead, as Americans, it should be about us building or improving upon what was done before. Our system isn't perfect. Lots of people have been left behind and things aren't working for some folks.

    My quick simple takes.

    Bush taxcuts and the sub-prime mortgage fiasco crashed the economy. Deficits were low

    Obama blew up deficits trying to recover from crash. Slowly recovered. Markets, employment, trending up. Deficits trending down, mostly due to austerity (GOP Congress)

    Trump ticked those economic, job numbers up to another higher level. Deficits up due to Trump tax cuts and military spending. Judgement still out on end effect of taxcuts.

    Look at the trend lines.


    https://www.google.com/amp/s/markets...9-9-1028833119




    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
    You can't talk about the Sub-prime mortgage crisis and not include Clinton. He started that and Bush picked up the ball and ran with it.

    "Under Clinton's Housing and Urban Development (HUD) secretary, Andrew Cuomo, Community Reinvestment Act regulators gave banks higher ratings for home loans made in "credit-deprived" areas. Banks were effectively rewarded for throwing out sound underwriting standards and writing loans to those who were at high risk of defaulting. If banks didn't comply with these rules, regulators reined in their ability to expand lending and deposits."

    https://www.cnbc.com/2016/05/28/are-...-villains.html

    I remember watching George Bush talk about the importance of home ownership. He was on the same bandwagon as Clinton. It was one of his core policy goals as president.

    Somewhere in the push to get everyone credit for homes all common sense lending got trashed.





  5. #5

    Re: The Economy - Bush, Obama, Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by ddr_jr View Post
    Please give this a fair read. Today, everything is about blaming people for why things are the way they are. Instead, as Americans, it should be about us building or improving upon what was done before. Our system isn't perfect. Lots of people have been left behind and things aren't working for some folks.

    My quick simple takes.

    Bush taxcuts and the sub-prime mortgage fiasco crashed the economy. Deficits were low

    Obama blew up deficits trying to recover from crash. Slowly recovered. Markets, employment, trending up. Deficits trending down, mostly due to austerity (GOP Congress)

    Trump ticked those economic, job numbers up to another higher level. Deficits up due to Trump tax cuts and military spending. Judgement still out on end effect of taxcuts.

    Look at the trend lines.


    https://www.google.com/amp/s/markets...9-9-1028833119




    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
    Please stop with the mindless commentary that tax cuts cause deficits





  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Clayton,NC
    Posts
    15,697

    Re: The Economy - Bush, Obama, Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by BustOfPallas View Post
    You can't talk about the Sub-prime mortgage crisis and not include Clinton. He started that and Bush picked up the ball and ran with it.

    "Under Clinton's Housing and Urban Development (HUD) secretary, Andrew Cuomo, Community Reinvestment Act regulators gave banks higher ratings for home loans made in "credit-deprived" areas. Banks were effectively rewarded for throwing out sound underwriting standards and writing loans to those who were at high risk of defaulting. If banks didn't comply with these rules, regulators reined in their ability to expand lending and deposits."

    https://www.cnbc.com/2016/05/28/are-...-villains.html

    I remember watching George Bush talk about the importance of home ownership. He was on the same bandwagon as Clinton. It was one of his core policy goals as president.

    Somewhere in the push to get everyone credit for homes all common sense lending got trashed.
    The community reinvestment act gets so little attention when it comes to the housing market and economy crash. It really started it all.
    "Don't let your happiness depend on something you may lose." - C.S. Lewis





  7. #7

    Re: The Economy - Bush, Obama, Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by BustOfPallas View Post
    You can't talk about the Sub-prime mortgage crisis and not include Clinton. He started that and Bush picked up the ball and ran with it.

    "Under Clinton's Housing and Urban Development (HUD) secretary, Andrew Cuomo, Community Reinvestment Act regulators gave banks higher ratings for home loans made in "credit-deprived" areas. Banks were effectively rewarded for throwing out sound underwriting standards and writing loans to those who were at high risk of defaulting. If banks didn't comply with these rules, regulators reined in their ability to expand lending and deposits."

    https://www.cnbc.com/2016/05/28/are-...-villains.html

    I remember watching George Bush talk about the importance of home ownership. He was on the same bandwagon as Clinton. It was one of his core policy goals as president.

    Somewhere in the push to get everyone credit for homes all common sense lending got trashed.
    Bush talked about home ownership. But Bush also knew that lending money to people that could never pay it back, was the root cause of the collapse. Josh was trying to get this looking at, but it was blocked. He was called a racist for bringing it up. In hind sight, Bush saw the collapse coming, tried to get in front, but politics wouldn’t allow it. Especially knowing that congress could block investigations and bush would still get blamed

    Tax cuts are not adding to the deficit, spending is. This is just common sense.


    I also think you are giving presidents too much credit.

    Clinton rose the wave of the dot com. He had zero to do with that

    Bush had to deal with 9-11 and the housing collapse under his term. Neither were by any result of his policies.
    Bush did lead us into war, which drove spending up.
    Obama didn’t have to deal with much. He was basically the dead cat bouncing. He took over as the housing crises hit bottom. Then he got an exemption to add 800 billion to Bush’s last budget. Imagine any other president getting $800 billion without having to account for it
    Trump isn’t doing anything special, except just bringing up back to what every other president prior to Obama did. Make America the priority

    None of them really did much to impact the economy. It’s a matter of minor tweaks to improve it, or slow it down





  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Frederick, MD
    Posts
    53,640
    Blog Entries
    4

    Re: The Economy - Bush, Obama, Trump

    Spending remains out of control.
    Disclaimer: The content posted is of my own opinion.

    RIP #25





  9. #9

    Re: The Economy - Bush, Obama, Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsolo View Post
    Spending remains out of control.
    Which nobody is happy about...

    When Trump is re-elected, he better start refusing to sign budget bills filled w/bullshit.





  10. #10

    Re: The Economy - Bush, Obama, Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by Vlad the lad View Post
    Bush talked about home ownership. But Bush also knew that lending money to people that could never pay it back, was the root cause of the collapse. Josh was trying to get this looking at, but it was blocked. He was called a racist for bringing it up. In hind sight, Bush saw the collapse coming, tried to get in front, but politics wouldn’t allow it. Especially knowing that congress could block investigations and bush would still get blamed

    Tax cuts are not adding to the deficit, spending is. This is just common sense.


    I also think you are giving presidents too much credit.

    Clinton rose the wave of the dot com. He had zero to do with that

    Bush had to deal with 9-11 and the housing collapse under his term. Neither were by any result of his policies.
    Bush did lead us into war, which drove spending up.
    Obama didn’t have to deal with much. He was basically the dead cat bouncing. He took over as the housing crises hit bottom. Then he got an exemption to add 800 billion to Bush’s last budget. Imagine any other president getting $800 billion without having to account for it
    Trump isn’t doing anything special, except just bringing up back to what every other president prior to Obama did. Make America the priority

    None of them really did much to impact the economy. It’s a matter of minor tweaks to improve it, or slow it down
    By spouting about home ownership he was part of the problem. That was him trying to have it both ways.

    Yes, efforts to put an end to bad lending would be labeled racist. I wonder if a stronger president might have been able to minimize the damage by doing away with it as soon as possible and taking the political hit. We all got distracted by 9/11 so who knows. Bush was in there for 8 years so you can't blame Clinton and not Bush and vice verse but it definitely started under the Clintons and the horrible idea that lending should be based on anything but creditworthiness.





  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Location
    Northern VA
    Posts
    931

    Re: The Economy - Bush, Obama, Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by ddr_jr View Post
    Please give this a fair read. Today, everything is about blaming people for why things are the way they are. Instead, as Americans, it should be about us building or improving upon what was done before. Our system isn't perfect. Lots of people have been left behind and things aren't working for some folks.

    My quick simple takes.

    Bush taxcuts and the sub-prime mortgage fiasco crashed the economy. Deficits were low

    Obama blew up deficits trying to recover from crash. Slowly recovered. Markets, employment, trending up. Deficits trending down, mostly due to austerity (GOP Congress)

    Trump ticked those economic, job numbers up to another higher level. Deficits up due to Trump tax cuts and military spending. Judgement still out on end effect of taxcuts.

    Look at the trend lines.


    https://www.google.com/amp/s/markets...9-9-1028833119




    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
    I agree that the economy grew under Obama. People will draw their own conclusions but the truth is that Obama was president while we climbed out of a national disaster from the Housing Crisis. I saw another post about Bush's tax cuts, and I actually agree... he did a very stupid thing when he was just giving money back in the form of a return instead of lowering the marginal rates on a quarterly basis. It created shortages at years end because instead of increased ability to gain capital throughout the year, companies and individuals were holding on spending until they got their check and then made one BIG purchase rather than improvements all year long, and it kept the market flat. Cutting the actual rate has actually increased federal revenues current-state, so to say that the tax cut is creating deficit when it is actually eliminating it is absurd. Revenues rose after the last tax cut... it is just that spending grew faster. Our country has a spending problem... any obfuscation of that point is a lie.

    Also, the writer doesn't take into account many factors such as what was going on at the time. Had Obama not had ANY growth, he would have been chased out of office with torches and pitchforks because that's all we could have afforded. The economy was in the TANK. People also forget that Obama was a sitting president over one of the largest technological inventions in history since the internet... smart phones. Think of that for a moment... remember what happened when the internet hit? The market EXPLODED. Small businesses popped up overnight and grew to revenues never imagined. Did we get that kind of growth in the economy? No... we did not. Why? Multiple reasons.. people weren't making enough money to buy them freely off the start which isn't Obama's fault. What WAS Obama's fault was the increased regulations that kept any real growth from happening. Regulations create strangleholds on innovation, and only solidifies monopolistic entities. Facebook went from being one of several social media sites... then came the regulations... how many new ones have there been to challenge FB and Twitter since? None really because the regulations are only afforded by these mega-companies now. If there was an innovation like that in the current market... the economy would absolutely explode.

    Also... GDP growth having dips that late in the Obama presidency is a TERRIBLE indicator. Production was decreasing under him late in his presidency when he supposedly "fixed" the crash. Those are AWFUL indicators.

    Now you look at Trump's numbers and they don't seem so impressive except that is false too. Unemployment for one. It doesn't look that impressive on a graph but we are talking about being, not only under 4%, but with a growing number of people returning to the labor market. That isn't just impressive... it is f'ing unbelievable, and never been done before.

    The non-farm Payroll Job Growth is a VERY misleading graph. It is "Change in thousands from previous quarter"... not percentage growth??? Not Overall??? Why? Because that graph would look VERY different and show an accelerated increase since 2017 because adding thousands quarter over quarter in a saturated market is impressive.

    Same with the wage growth... it is over previous quarter... nobody measures it like that... certainly not for a 20 year graph because it doesn't make sense to measure it that way.

    Also, as for median incomes... they did rise under Obama... I certainly am not disputing that fact. But once again... try actually looking at the values of that graph... why not do THAT one quarterly? Their date points for data are really weird... was that annual? Bi-Annual? Why are so many data points so close to each other towards the end? Household median incomes in 2016 were $59,039... this graph is showing them to be ~$62,000??? Even adjusting for inflation this graph would be wildly inaccurate... here is the Census Bureau data if you don't believe me: https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-...s-fell-in-2016

    I knew this last one looked REALLY off because I knew that they had grown substantially in 2017 and that they weren't over $60k until at least the latter half of 2017... this graph shows them two years early, and also gives Obama an extra datapoint... it is weird. That was an easy one to spot for me, and if I had time, I'd question the validity of a LOT of these graphs.
    "Always remember that you are absolutely unique. Just like everyone else." -Margaret Mead





  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Location
    Northern VA
    Posts
    931

    Re: The Economy - Bush, Obama, Trump

    Quote Originally Posted by BustOfPallas View Post
    By spouting about home ownership he was part of the problem. That was him trying to have it both ways.

    Yes, efforts to put an end to bad lending would be labeled racist. I wonder if a stronger president might have been able to minimize the damage by doing away with it as soon as possible and taking the political hit. We all got distracted by 9/11 so who knows. Bush was in there for 8 years so you can't blame Clinton and not Bush and vice verse but it definitely started under the Clintons and the horrible idea that lending should be based on anything but creditworthiness.
    Totally agree that Bush pushed Homeownership in a market that it should NOT have been pushed during... it was the perfect storm. You had Barney Frank screwing over the banks by forcing them to issue these subprime loans, and he flat out SAW the data heading in the bad direction and did nothing to stop it. I think he was personally pushing for it to crash under Bush but didn't realize it was going to be THAT bad. Bush tried to audit Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac several times during his presidency and Frank fought him at every turn. Knowing that, Bush should have stopped that nonsense of being Oprah and shouting, "Go get whatever house you can!!!" No economy grows like we were growing. People were buying homes and selling them a year later for a 25-100% profit... you're telling me nobody stopped to think of that? What is horrible was that I was in college in 2002 and my roommate and I BOTH were like, "There is NO WAY this is correct!" and both of us told our parents to get 30-year fixed ASAP on their mortages. My buddies parents listened and mine did NOT... it ended up costing my parents $200k in the long run.

    Let's just say this... if two 21-year olds with barely college levels of understanding of economics saw this coming... how did nobody in our government?
    "Always remember that you are absolutely unique. Just like everyone else." -Margaret Mead





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