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Thread: The Economy - Bush, Obama, Trump
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Re: The Economy - Bush, Obama, Trump
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Re: The Economy - Bush, Obama, Trump
Oh man, isn't Plowman a guy critiquing social life in the 14th cent UK? If I remember, and this was grade school long ago, he was the origination of the tales of robin hood? Which somehow became steal from the rich give to the poor instead of end the corrupt overzealous government and get the tax guy off my back lol.
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02-11-2020, 10:31 PM #29
Re: The Economy - Bush, Obama, Trump
"A moron, a rapist, and a Pittsburgh Steeler walk into a bar. He sits down and says, “Hi I’m Ben may I have a drink please?”
ProFootballMock
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02-12-2020, 07:47 AM #30
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02-13-2020, 12:10 PM #31Pro Bowl Poster
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Re: The Economy - Bush, Obama, Trump
https://www.cnsnews.com/article/wash...hrough-january
Despite huge tax cuts, government collected record taxes in first 4 months of Fiscal 2020. Second highest tax collection was 2018. Hmmm....
Government also set record in spending.
So which side should be addressed to reduce national debt?
Not surprisingly largest areas of spend were Social Security, Medicare, Defense (in that order). We're spending more on interest than we are on Veterans and Education combined.
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02-13-2020, 02:05 PM #32
Re: The Economy - Bush, Obama, Trump
I don't know if I've ever seen you post down here, but you are amazing. I'd love it if you corrected anything that I've previously posted... I'm not perfect. I have (in my opinion) a "better than most" grasp of economics but I have to say that you definitely win out on me here.
Two things that I hate are generalizations made by politicians and the media:
1. That government "creates jobs": Yes, the Federal Government can initialize a project that a contractor can be hired for, and if the job is big enough, they may hire temporary workers for that project. So, in a way... SOME jobs are created. That being said... had the Fed NOT done the project, those workers still had projects and jobs for the most part. I'll admit that if the government completely stopped spending on these projects, that there are a LOT of companies that would go out of business and jobs would be lost... there is a medium (just like tax cuts affect revenues) where government project spending could actually be reduced and it would actually create more jobs in the free market.
2. Infrastructure Spending creates economic booms: This is a WILD generalization. Are we talking about repairing a bridge, or are we talking about an airport? There are areas where it would reduce jobs... what if they built a hydro-electric dam? While people might be hired to work that dam, others in the energy sector would be let go. There are offsets in every action. I like to think of everything government as doing has an effect of 7. For every positive net gain they enact, you typically can link back 7 net losses in other categories that are adversely affected.
I'd like your thoughts on this."Always remember that you are absolutely unique. Just like everyone else." -Margaret Mead
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02-13-2020, 02:14 PM #33
Re: The Economy - Bush, Obama, Trump
Social Security should be eliminated. It sucks that nobody could ever run on that, and it would be political suicide, but it has never been anything more than a ponzi scheme. It is why Pensions fail... they are unsustainable... We need to cut our losses and move on from that system. Bush, early on, had a decent proposal to have savings accounts that would be put into 401k accounts and take government out as the middle man... it would have caused a massive injection of capital into the market... revenues to government would have shot up dramatically... our deficit would have been eliminated insanely fast at the time. It was voted down in congress in 2001. The current economic landscape today would have looked way different.
"Always remember that you are absolutely unique. Just like everyone else." -Margaret Mead
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Re: The Economy - Bush, Obama, Trump
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Re: The Economy - Bush, Obama, Trump
1. Yes the government can create jobs. However, this is once one largely ignores the net jobs vs the gross jobs debate. Essentially, individuals hired by the federal or state govt are just as likely to be hired in the private sector and jobs programs require either reallocation of budget funds or a new influx of funds (taxes). Therefore, the ultimate point and this is consistent since the 30's is when government hires taxes increase in lagging factors, sometimes direct ways ala direct tax hike to promote job growth (state). The issue here is that, and I agree with Vedder and Galloway, every rise in federal/state jobs extract economic rent from the tax payers. This is essentially an efficiency argument, I can elaborate more if needed.
2. This is a wild generalization I can agree. Look at ISPs between 93 and 2013 less than 2% of the population HAD access to the internet and by 2013 just under 2% didn't already HAVE access (essentially no ISP serving their primary residence). This was done with organic market growth and demand for a product. This was efficient and created loads of jobs not to mention access to the internet that revolutionized how people lived. The TVA for example provided rural electrification in the TV area, it provided around 13k employees work yet through eminent domain it displaced 15,654 people from their homes (#s from Ed Best of the TVA corp library). William Chandler noted that the bordering states of the TVA area versus the one's that had federally provided electricity saw far better economic outcomes, in the 50 years since the project econ growth in bordering states equaled or surpassed the growth within the Tennessee Valley. This is usually noted due to the same level of economic growth and activity before the TVA initiative.
Let me know if this all makes sense.Last edited by BuryRaven; 02-14-2020 at 06:51 PM. Reason: wording was poor, apologies
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Re: The Economy - Bush, Obama, Trump
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