2020 NFL Draft - ILB Thread

**GreatWhiteNorthRaven** · 01-25-2020, 02:35 PM

Originally Posted by edromeo

Good stuff. Will respond when I get the chance.

Thank you sir. I think there’s some good discussion points from those clips. Murray is worth the deep dive. I expect him to be highly linked to us

**BcRaven** · 01-25-2020, 02:41 PM

Originally Posted by Valhain

That's very good, thanks.

As a first round pick I find him a bit underwhelming compared to other options at Edge, IDL or even WR. But I believe the problem is, we so desperately need an ILB that we are fixating on him because there is very little in FA and Draft wise in terms of options; Simmons will be long gone and there doesn't seem to be much else past Murray in the first three rounds. More options at and/or Draft for those other positions.

Val, I feel the same way. There (hopefully) will be an impact player at another position (Pass-Rush, WR, Oline) that I'd rather select over an ILB who may be "a popular pick to us", but not as impactful... Bc

**GOTA** · 01-25-2020, 03:27 PM

Originally Posted by Ravenswintitle

Fair question and I don't know the answer - maybe 2nd round? He's got a lot to like, needs experience

Kiper has us taking Queen in the 1st round. Sounds too high to me

**Raveninwoodlawn** · 01-25-2020, 03:39 PM

Originally Posted by GOTA

Kiper has us taking Queen in the 1st round. Sounds too high to me

He's risen very quickly...I just looked at Jeremiah's top 50 and he has Queen all the way up to his 16th ranked player.

I really need to take a look at his tape.

**GreatWhiteNorthRaven** · 01-25-2020, 04:03 PM

Originally Posted by Raveninwoodlawn

He's risen very quickly...I just looked at Jeremiah's top 50 and he has Queen all the way up to his 16th ranked player.

I really need to take a look at his tape.

Kinda similar to Murray IMO. Uses his speed, has good instincts, but can he take on blocks and be a compelte every down MIKE?

One question you have to ask is do they need to be a MIKE? The concern with that is in the nickel which is basically our base with only 1 other LB you have to put out a thumper instead of your "do it all" guy. So if you put Fort on can teams target Fort in the passing game? Does that limit the value of Murray?

In the dime it's a little different. With the extra DBs your prepping for the pass and that plays right into Murray's wheelhouse. He can man up or play zone. He can chase RB's no problem.

So your basically looking at a WILL in the base/nickel that can still be your 3-down LB by playing the LB spot in the dime.

I think Queen is a similar type of guy.

**jonboy79** · 01-25-2020, 05:51 PM

Originally Posted by GreatWhiteNorthRaven

Kinda similar to Murray IMO. Uses his speed, has good instincts, but can he take on blocks and be a compelte every down MIKE?

One question you have to ask is do they need to be a MIKE? The concern with that is in the nickel which is basically our base with only 1 other LB you have to put out a thumper instead of your "do it all" guy. So if you put Fort on can teams target Fort in the passing game? Does that limit the value of Murray?

In the dime it's a little different. With the extra DBs your prepping for the pass and that plays right into Murray's wheelhouse. He can man up or play zone. He can chase RB's no problem.

So your basically looking at a WILL in the base/nickel that can still be your 3-down LB by playing the LB spot in the dime.

I think Queen is a similar type of guy.

Yes, I think this is an accurate assessment of what you are looking for. Someone that splits the difference between Fort and Peanut. If he can be best of both worlds and worst of neither that would be ideal and honestly not asking too much for a first rounder.

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**GreatWhiteNorthRaven** · 01-25-2020, 06:00 PM

Originally Posted by jonboy79

Yes, I think this is an accurate assessment of what you are looking for. Someone that splits the difference between Fort and Peanut. If he can be best of both worlds and worst of neither that would be ideal and honestly not asking too much for a first rounder.

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I'd feel a lot better about it if we could upgrade the DL in FA before drafint him.

A good DL keeps LB's like that clean (remember Ray advocating for DL before they drafted Ngata). Some distruptive guys like Hargraves up front and guys that can set the edge and occupy blockers allow him to shoot gaps.

**jonboy79** · 01-25-2020, 06:03 PM

Originally Posted by GreatWhiteNorthRaven

I'd feel a lot better about it if we could upgrade the DL in FA before drafint him.

A good DL keeps LB's like that clean (remember Ray advocating for DL before they drafted Ngata). Some distruptive guys like Hargraves up front and guys that can set the edge and occupy blockers allow him to shoot gaps.

Oh I still want to add Calais Campbell and retain Judon, or Clowney and McCoy or... something similar and still find need for a round 1 LB.

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**tnsmith90** · 01-25-2020, 10:05 PM

Originally Posted by BcRaven

Val, I feel the same way. There (hopefully) will be an impact player at another position (Pass-Rush, WR, Oline) that I'd rather select over an ILB who may be "a popular pick to us", but not as impactful... Bc

I agree completely. Thing is, you can find solid ILBs in the mid to late rounds of every single draft. They will have their warts, but they can be used effectively within their niche. So, whether we need a Will whose strength is in pass coverage, or a Mike whose strength is in beating blockers, or both, we should be able to find them somewhere in rounds 3-5. The only way I am ever on board with taking an ILB in the 1st round is if they are a complete stud that can beat blockers without getting washed out, run sideline to sideline, and excel in pass coverage. There are very few of those guys around, which makes them 1st round worthy. Otherwise, I'd rather target a different position that early, regardless of what may be perceived as the team's greatest "need".

**bmoreravenous** · 01-25-2020, 10:30 PM

Originally Posted by GreatWhiteNorthRaven

Figured it'd be good to have a thread on most positions of need.

I watched some Kenneth Murray last night. He's one of the most popular projected picks at 28 for us.

Some of the things I liked:
- He has true sideline-to-sideline speed. I'm more interested to see his 20 yard shuttle than his 40 time. I expect it to be insanely fast and during his 40, I expect his 10 yard split to be fast too.
- The instincts are there. He gets outside of blockers and angles back towards the ball. He has the speed and instincts to do it and he avoids getting touched.
- Oklahoma moved him all over. He even had some rushes off the edge, which is good to see. Very versatile cat that fits the approach Wink takes of disgusing assignments.
- Great tackler.

Some of the things I didn't like:
- I dont think I saw him come off one block. Fullbacking the defense is a terrifying thought and I question his ability to be a MIKE. This is the biggest concern and it really drops his value in my mind. He gets good leverage and he uses his hands well, but he doesnt' seem to have the strength to come off the blocks once he earns leverage. In particular, you could see it when the offense was running a pin and pull because that playside OG is looking back inside and Murray is typically his may with the OT seeing an OLB to his side or a DB.
- I didn't see him play much man. They had him in zone and he did well, but I just didnt' see the man coverage reps to do an assessment of it.

Overall:
- He's a popular pick to us and I see the excitment because of how athletic he is, but seeing him get washed on outside plays sounds like something we don't need here. I think he'd be a WILL here.

This reads like T Goods and Arthur Browns scouting report - freakishly athletic line backers who struggle in the run game.

**GreatWhiteNorthRaven** · 01-25-2020, 10:32 PM

Originally Posted by bmoreravenous

This reads like T Goods and Arthur Browns scouting report - freakishly athletic line backers who struggle in the run game.

Fair point, but I would argue the difference is I see an instinctual player. I didnt see that with Art Brown. I never watched Gooden in depth.

**edromeo** · 01-25-2020, 11:08 PM

Originally Posted by GreatWhiteNorthRaven

...One question you have to ask is do they need to be a MIKE? The concern with that is in the nickel which is basically our base with only 1 other LB you have to put out a thumper instead of your "do it all" guy. So if you put Fort on can teams target Fort in the passing game? Does that limit the value of Murray?

When I think of 34 defenses I don't even think of edge rusher as LBs at all....for me they're LB in name only.
34 defense I think of the ILBs and for me the Mack/Will is the more valuable and more important player and harder to find player. If by some miracle Simmons fell would you give it a second thought that he's more of Mack/Will then Buck/Mike?