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  1. #49
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    Re: Impeachment notes & tidbits

    Quote Originally Posted by NCRAVEN View Post
    How exactly does one come to an understanding of something they were never told if they didn’t make some assumptions?
    He was told. He had direct contacts with Trump, and he was also in communication with Giuliani. Trump told him to do what Giuliani wanted. Giuliani was tying the White House visit and, later, the aid to Zelensky announcing investigations. Sondland and Giuliani were both telling Zelensky and his people that he had to make the announcement to get the visit (and later the aid was added). Sondland testified to that, and he was corroborated by Taylor and Volker on that. Inadvertently Morrison confirmed it, and Holmes also provided corroboration of Trump's personal concern with investigations.





  2. #50
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    Re: Impeachment notes & tidbits

    Quote Originally Posted by FadeToBlack View Post
    The biggest political scandal in U.S. history was when the FBI used an unverified dossier bought by the DNC in a FISA application to surveil and investigate their political rivals, in order to annul an election. We're talking about the FBI violating the 4th Amendment rights of likely thousands of people who were 2 degrees of separation from Carter Page (using the FISA two-hop rule).

    The people who buried and distracted us from this scandal were front and center for "Russian collusion" and now impeachment. Impeachment is the media's newest effort to obfuscate this scandal. "Russian collusion" was previously the red herring they used to distract us from Spygate, but even Robert Mueller poured cold water on that, so they needed to transition quickly to a new "bombshell" to keep us from noticing what happened.

    To this day, we still have no concrete evidence the Russians hacked the DNC email server. All the "evidence" the Russians hacked the DNC came from a DNC contractor named CrowdStrike, who provided the government server images and a forensic report that they redacted FROM the government. There was never an independent forensic analysis conducted by the government because they never gained custody of the physical DNC email servers. In fact there's more evidence of a leak than a hack, as VIPS, Bill Binney and Forensicator have demonstrated.

    Russia was the US intelligence community's attempt to distract the public from their own election meddling by using the trusty "red scare" propaganda that worked during the Cold War. The "DNC hack" is this generation's "weapons of mass destruction" and is the latest example of the US intelligence apparatus lying (see: Dancing Israelis, Gulf of Tonkin incident, JFK's assassination and so many other examples). We're witnessing the collapse of the American empire before our eyes because our elections are now actively under assault by unelected intelligence operatives.
    This is a combination of complete fiction and Russian propaganda spread among rightwing nutjob sites.





  3. #51
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    Re: Impeachment notes & tidbits

    Quote Originally Posted by Ortizer View Post
    Even if he's removed, do you think he'd withdraw from November?
    That would depend on what the Senate decides. Art. I Sec.3 cl. 7:

    Judgment in Cases of Impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from Office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States: but the Party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgment and Punishment, according to Law.
    'Course, since the GOP is going to ignore the evidence and acquit that's an academic question.





  4. #52
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    Re: Impeachment notes & tidbits

    Quote Originally Posted by bacchys View Post
    The potential conflict with Biden working for Burisma was reported on at the time, including the White House's concern about it.

    What was there to investigate?

    Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
    Why did Biden use aid dollars to get the prosecutor fired?

    How is this not Quid Pro Quo?





  5. #53
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    Re: Impeachment notes & tidbits

    Quote Originally Posted by bacchys View Post
    He was told. He had direct contacts with Trump, and he was also in communication with Giuliani. Trump told him to do what Giuliani wanted. Giuliani was tying the White House visit and, later, the aid to Zelensky announcing investigations. Sondland and Giuliani were both telling Zelensky and his people that he had to make the announcement to get the visit (and later the aid was added). Sondland testified to that, and he was corroborated by Taylor and Volker on that. Inadvertently Morrison confirmed it, and Holmes also provided corroboration of Trump's personal concern with investigations.
    His testimony in the house he said no one told him.





  6. #54
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    Re: Impeachment notes & tidbits

    Quote Originally Posted by bacchys View Post
    Biden didn't do that. Shokin wasn't investigating Burisma. Part of the reason the U.S., the EU, the IMF, and many, many others wanted him out of office is he wasn't investigating Burisma and its founder Mykola Zlochevsky.

    The only "evidence" supporting the claim Shokin was investigating Burisma is an affadavit by Shokin filed on behalf of Russian mob associate Dmitro Firtash in his efforts to fight extradition to the U.S. on corruption and bribery charges in the Southern District of Illinois. Even that affadavit undercuts its internal claim that Shokin was actually investigating: it lists no investigative act taken by anyone. His account is disputed by his deputy at the time, Kasko and by his successor, Lutsenko.

    There are still a lot of articles online from 2014, 2015, and 2016 when all this was going on which show the Giuliani-Firtash scam that Shokin was fired to stop an investigation into Hunter Biden is false.
    SURE!

    In any case . . .

    IT WAS QUID PRO QUO!

    Using our foreign aid money he did EXACTLY what you claim Trump has done despite the Ukranian president saying otherwise.

    You people are just off the hook.





  7. #55

    Re: Impeachment notes & tidbits

    Quote Originally Posted by bacchys View Post
    He was told.
    “No one on this planet told you POTUS was tying aid/political investigations?”

    Sondland: “Yes”

    “So you have no evidence”

    Sondland: “Other than my presumption”





  8. #56

    Re: Impeachment notes & tidbits

    Quote Originally Posted by bacchys View Post
    This is a combination of complete fiction and Russian propaganda spread among rightwing nutjob sites.
    Come on! Are you really saying that the FBI didn’t attempt to alter an election? That just makes you look dumb.





  9. #57
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    Re: Impeachment notes & tidbits

    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmaniac4life View Post
    “No one on this planet told you POTUS was tying aid/political investigations?”

    Sondland: “Yes”

    “So you have no evidence”

    Sondland: “Other than my presumption”





  10. #58
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    Re: Impeachment notes & tidbits

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg View Post
    SURE!

    In any case . . .

    IT WAS QUID PRO QUO!

    Using our foreign aid money he did EXACTLY what you claim Trump has done despite the Ukranian president saying otherwise.

    You people are just off the hook.
    You just made him disappear.





  11. #59
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    Re: Impeachment notes & tidbits

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg View Post
    SURE!

    In any case . . .

    IT WAS QUID PRO QUO!

    Using our foreign aid money he did EXACTLY what you claim Trump has done despite the Ukranian president saying otherwise.

    You people are just off the hook.
    It was a quid pro quo. I said that. It's not the same thing Trump did. At all.

    For starters, the legislation that authorized the loan guarantees at issue when Biden made his demand of Poroshenko authorized Obama to do that. Secondly, Biden was doing what Obama had authorized him to do. Third, the policy was arrived at by a multi-agency consensus in consultation with Congress, and with the agreement of other stakeholders like the IMF, the EU, and anti-corruption folks in Ukraine. Obama and Biden did it openly. They didn't try to hide it. They didn't lie about it. Those involved knew up front what was going on and why.

    Trump, in contrast, hid what he was doing. He used Giuliani as a backdoor and tasked Sondland outside his writ to circumvent the official diplomatic apparatus in Ukraine. He didn't let the State Dep't or the Embassy in Ukraine know what he was doing. They weren't aware that Trump was behind Sondland's "drug deal" as Bolton called it. He had the summary of his phone call locked away on a super secret computer and didn't deliver the usual read-out to those in the Administration with a portfolio involving Ukraine, which meant they were unaware of what was going on. When the hold on the aid was ordered no reason was given for it. When OMB staffer Mark Shandy made his concerns about its legality known, since there was no reason given for it, they took it away from him and made the unusual decision to give it to a political appointee in the OMB. Appropriations are usually handled by career staff because they have the experience. That political appointee was Duffy, and when news of the whisteblower first became known he sent out emails attempting to blame DOD for the delay in the aid getting paid. Apparently even he didn't know why it was being held, though it defies reason that he didn't know it was held because Trump had ordered it. That didn't work, so first they came up with the excuse that Trump was worried other European countries weren't paying enough. Then it was "corruption," though he didn't mention corruption in either conversation with Zelensky and the only things he actually did mention were the unfounded claims against the Bidens and the completely insane gibberish he apparently believes about Crowdstrike.

    You people are just willfully ignorant. You stay in a bubble and refuse to see reality.





  12. #60
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    Re: Impeachment notes & tidbits

    Quote Originally Posted by steelerhater View Post
    Come on! Are you really saying that the FBI didn’t attempt to alter an election? That just makes you look dumb.
    The FBI did not attempt to alter an election. Parts of it did. The New York Field Office, for example, had at least some anti-Clinton agents who had been leaking information (some of it false) to Giuliani and the rightwing press.

    Have you read the DOJ OIG report on the Midyear Exam?

    For that matter, did you read the DOJ OIG report on Crossfire Hurricane? Because both of those reports thoroughly debunk the Trumpist conspiracy theory that the FBI was out to get him.





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